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Old 09-05-2011, 04:54 PM
RiverWind
 
Default In Need of Advice

Hey There,

I have two computers, a DOS and a Linux box. Now then, I am wanting
to access my Linux box via my DOS box. I would ultimately like to
use my Linux box as my sole ISP. I do not believe that using my
modem in order to dial up my Linux machine would work, but I also
know that there is such a thing as a "NUL" modem cable???

How would you good gentles go about putting such a plan as mine
into action? In other words, how would you go about accessing a
Linux machine with a DOS system? Is there any special software?
Would I have to use a USB port? If I am not mistaken, DOS doesn't
work with USB ports??? Even more desirable would be the ability to
use the terminal emulator "Commo" as my means of establishing
contact between the respective systems.

I would appreciate any and all advice I can get regarding this
matter, so that I won't need to pay for an ISP when I already have
one. Thanks so much in advance.

cheerio,
Riv

Feel free to visit my website and my blog and learn more about me
and what I stand for.
My Website @ http://riverwind.shellworld.net
My Blog http://windraven13.livejournal.com/


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Old 09-05-2011, 05:03 PM
Chris Brennan
 
Default In Need of Advice

On 9/5/2011 12:54 PM, RiverWind wrote:
>
> Hey There,
>
> I have two computers, a DOS and a Linux box. Now then, I am wanting
> to access my Linux box via my DOS box. I would ultimately like to
> use my Linux box as my sole ISP. I do not believe that using my
> modem in order to dial up my Linux machine would work, but I also
> know that there is such a thing as a "NUL" modem cable???

This is a Female-Female DB9 Serial port cable, the savy make their own,
I prefer to just buy them for a few bucks (I use 3-4 of them currently
to interconnect 5 devices, including my Netgate Firewall, in-case-of LAN
failure for some reason.

The linux box is assumed as Debian? What type of Dos box is this? MSDOS?
FreeDOS? FreeDOS may be a better route or if you are only using this box
for a small subset of tools, try DOSBOX, a *nix "dos" emulator.

> How would you good gentles go about putting such a plan as mine
> into action? In other words, how would you go about accessing a
> Linux machine with a DOS system? Is there any special software?
> Would I have to use a USB port? If I am not mistaken, DOS doesn't
> work with USB ports??? Even more desirable would be the ability to
> use the terminal emulator "Commo" as my means of establishing
> contact between the respective systems.

Just plug the cable in, make sure the DOS BIOS has the COM/DB9 port
enabled, note the irq/memory range. Then just tell Commo to use that
port to communicate.

As for setting it up on your linux box, this link[1] should help you. Be
sure to adapt it for your OS, so variations may need to be applied.

> I would appreciate any and all advice I can get regarding this
> matter, so that I won't need to pay for an ISP when I already have
> one. Thanks so much in advance.

What your aiming for here is 'Serial Console Access' and that would be
some of the keywords you would use to apply your GoogleFu. Obviously,
this is general, apply necessary keywords to supplement your search for
refinement.


> Feel free to visit my website and my blog and learn more about me
> and what I stand for.
> My Website @ http://riverwind.shellworld.net
> My Blog http://windraven13.livejournal.com/
>
>

hth

--
> Chris Brennan
> --
> A: Yes.
> >Q: Are you sure?
> >>A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
> >>>Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
> http://xkcd.com/84/ | http://xkcd.com/149/ | http://xkcd.com/549/
> GPG: D5B20C0C (6741 8EE4 6C7D 11FB 8DA8 9E4A EECD 9A84 D5B2 0C0C)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 09-05-2011, 07:34 PM
Bob Proulx
 
Default In Need of Advice

RiverWind wrote:
> Hey There,

Note that cross-posting to a large number of lists never works out
very well. I would hold discussions one at a time. I have chosen to
reply only to the debian-user list since that is the list to which I
am subscribed.

> I have two computers, a DOS and a Linux box. Now then, I am wanting
> to access my Linux box via my DOS box.

When you say access, what exactly do you mean? In my mind that
conjures up only one image. In my mind I would run a serial terminal
emulator on the DOS machine and use it as a serial terminal to the
GNU/Linux machine. Of course this has advantages and disadvantages.

You old DOS machine probably has a serial port. Most of the older
machines did. But your newer GNU/Linux machine might not. Most of
the newer machines today are no longer providing those included as
standard on the machine. However it is very easy to use a USB to
serial converter. I have a couple of such converters on different
machines and they work very well. Using one of those USB-serial
converters you could easily set it up as a serial console to a machine
that did not originally include a serial port. However that will only
work once the operating system is loaded. It will not provide access
to the BIOS nor to the boot time processes.

> I would ultimately like to use my Linux box as my sole ISP.

This statement confuses me. Your machine is not an ISP. An ISP is
an internet service provider. You would connect your machine to your
ISP in order to have access to the larger, and notably hostile,
Internet. Because this is something you connect to then you should be
able to connect either your DOS machine or your GNU Linux machine to
your ISP and you would only need one of them.

How are you connecting to your ISP now? By using your DOS machine?
How? By phone line modem? By DSL? By cable modem? Other?

Broadband is the preferred connection and the majority of broadband
users today connect using either a cable modem or a DSL modem. Most
of us have happily left phone line modems and the sounds of phone line
connections behind. I haven't heard a the bong-bong-chime-buzz of a
phone modem connection for a very long time now.

> I do not believe that using my modem in order to dial up my Linux
> machine would work, but I also know that there is such a thing as a
> "NUL" modem cable???

This leads me to believe that you are using a phone line modem to
connect to your ISP. True?

Yes on the null modem cable. In RS-232 one wire is the transmit and
another wire is the receive making the cable connections polarized.
This is designed to talk from a computer to a terminal and each had
their own polarity. A null-modem cable flips those so that two
computers can talk directly without the terminals in the middle. This
is the DTE and DCE classifications for data terminal equipment and
data computer equipment.

You would use a null modem cable to talk RS-232 serial between two
computers. Or null modem cable adaptor. Radio Shack sells such an
adaptor and as I recall it is around five dollars. With the adaptor
any standard serial cable can be converted into a null modem cable.

Your GNU Linux machine's /etc/inittab file contains a commented out
template line to start a serial terminal "getty" process. Uncomment
it. Send init the HUP signal or run 'telinit q' to have init re-read
the /etc/inittab.

That would be very old-school though. Surely there is a way for you
to use your GNU Linux machine directly. Then you would not need to
have a serial connection between them.

> How would you good gentles go about putting such a plan as mine
> into action? In other words, how would you go about accessing a
> Linux machine with a DOS system? Is there any special software?
> Would I have to use a USB port? If I am not mistaken, DOS doesn't
> work with USB ports??? Even more desirable would be the ability to
> use the terminal emulator "Commo" as my means of establishing
> contact between the respective systems.

If your GNU Linux machine has a serial port then connect up a null
modem cable between your two computers. Or use a standard serial
cable with a null-modem adaptor to connect. On your GNU Linux machine
uncomment the getty entry from /etc/inittab. The line to uncomment is
the following line:

T0:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyS0 9600 vt100

That will start the getty process on the /dev/ttyS0 serial device. If
you are using a USB-serial converter then the USB device will be
different and that entry will need to be adjusted. For a USB serial
device the name is something like /dev/ttyUSB0 and so the "ttyS0" part
would need to be changed to be "ttyUSB0" instead. Here is an example
for a USB device:

T0:23:respawn:/sbin/getty -L ttyUSBS0 9600 vt100

Notice that "ttyS0" has been changed in that example to "ttyUSB0" for
a USB to serial converter. The 9600 in the above represents 9600 bits
per second, 8-bits, no parity.

Then with the above getty in place and running you would start Commo
on your DOS machine. After hitting Enter you should receive a
"login:" prompt from the GNU Linux machine over the serial
connection. Log into the machine normally.

For this type of connection it probably won't hurt but I would guess
that Commo will insert modem initialization sequences, "AT" commands,
into the startup. This will confuse the login program. Okay to leave
while getting things going but it probably means you will need to hit
Enter several times to clear past the extra junk. You should
configure Commo to not send modem initialization sequences when used
for connecting directly to another computer by serial cable to avoid
that extra junk being sent when there isn't a phone modem in use.

I cannot guess at how difficult this will be for someone without
vision to accomplish. It is often difficult enough to two get serial
ports to communicate properly when someone is sighted. However once
it is set up I expect such a configuration would be very reliable.

> I would appreciate any and all advice I can get regarding this
> matter, so that I won't need to pay for an ISP when I already have
> one. Thanks so much in advance.

Just because you can do this serial connection I am not sure it is the
best thing for you to actually do. (grin)

I would hope that today a GNU Linux machine would be more accessible
than the previous DOS era machines.

Bob
 
Old 09-05-2011, 07:49 PM
Walter Hurry
 
Default In Need of Advice

On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 13:34:32 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:

> Note that cross-posting to a large number of lists never works out very
> well. I would hold discussions one at a time. I have chosen to reply
> only to the debian-user list since that is the list to which I am
> subscribed.

Indeed. I consign crossposted efforts to the bit bucket before reading,
and suspect that I am not alone.


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Old 09-06-2011, 04:56 PM
Dan Ritter
 
Default In Need of Advice

On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 12:54:16PM -0400, RiverWind wrote:
>
> How would you good gentles go about putting such a plan as mine
> into action? In other words, how would you go about accessing a
> Linux machine with a DOS system? Is there any special software?
> Would I have to use a USB port? If I am not mistaken, DOS doesn't
> work with USB ports??? Even more desirable would be the ability to
> use the terminal emulator "Commo" as my means of establishing
> contact between the respective systems.

If you can install an ethernet card in your DOS machine, you can
have full internet access from it, through the Linux box.

The modem goes on your Linux box. Run ppp to connect to your
ISP.

The ethernet port on your Linux box connects via a crossover
ethernet cable to the ethernet port on the DOS box.
Alternatively, you can use straight cables to connect them both
to an ethernet switch.

The Linux machine runs IP masquerading, or NAT, to extend the
IP connection to the ethernet. Let's assume you call the
Linux ethernet interface 192.168.0.1, and your DOS box
192.168.0.5.

echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_dynaddr
iptables -t nat -A postrouting -o ppp0 -s 192.168.0.5 -j MASQUERADE

And on your DOS box, you want to set up the Crynwr packet driver
appropriate for your ethernet card -- see
http://www.georgpotthast.de/sioux/packet.htm
for packet drivers.

DOS apps which use packet drivers are listed at
http://www.dendarii.co.uk/FAQs/dos-apps.html


Good luck,

-dsr-

--
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Old 09-06-2011, 11:39 PM
Jude DaShiell
 
Default In Need of Advice

On Tue, 6 Sep 2011, Dan Ritter wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 12:54:16PM -0400, RiverWind wrote:
> >
> > How would you good gentles go about putting such a plan as mine
> > into action? In other words, how would you go about accessing a
> > Linux machine with a DOS system? Is there any special software?
> > Would I have to use a USB port? If I am not mistaken, DOS doesn't
> > work with USB ports??? Even more desirable would be the ability to
> > use the terminal emulator "Commo" as my means of establishing
> > contact between the respective systems.
>
> If you can install an ethernet card in your DOS machine, you can
> have full internet access from it, through the Linux box.
>
> The modem goes on your Linux box. Run ppp to connect to your
> ISP.
>
> The ethernet port on your Linux box connects via a crossover
> ethernet cable to the ethernet port on the DOS box.
> Alternatively, you can use straight cables to connect them both
> to an ethernet switch.
>
> The Linux machine runs IP masquerading, or NAT, to extend the
> IP connection to the ethernet. Let's assume you call the
> Linux ethernet interface 192.168.0.1, and your DOS box
> 192.168.0.5.
>
> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_dynaddr
> iptables -t nat -A postrouting -o ppp0 -s 192.168.0.5 -j MASQUERADE
>
> And on your DOS box, you want to set up the Crynwr packet driver
> appropriate for your ethernet card -- see
> http://www.georgpotthast.de/sioux/packet.htm
> for packet drivers.
>
> DOS apps which use packet drivers are listed at
> http://www.dendarii.co.uk/FAQs/dos-apps.html
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> -dsr-
>
Let's see if this goes over as bottom posted. I don't recommend using
ethernet with dos since it's just about impossible to either locate a dos
ethernet driver that will work with the available ethernet card and the
second near impossibility is finding anyone who even remembers how to set
a dos box up so it will work on ethernet. Too many people suffered too
much Windows brain rot over the years and even those that once knew how
to do this I know have forgotten how to do it.

>

Jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> "I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his
Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in
action folks! You know he's got God on his side."
~ Bill Hicks


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Old 09-07-2011, 02:38 PM
Dan Ritter
 
Default In Need of Advice

On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 07:39:46PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Sep 2011, Dan Ritter wrote:
>
...
> > And on your DOS box, you want to set up the Crynwr packet driver
> > appropriate for your ethernet card -- see
> > http://www.georgpotthast.de/sioux/packet.htm
> > for packet drivers.
> >
> > DOS apps which use packet drivers are listed at
> > http://www.dendarii.co.uk/FAQs/dos-apps.html
> >
> Let's see if this goes over as bottom posted. I don't recommend using
> ethernet with dos since it's just about impossible to either locate a dos
> ethernet driver that will work with the available ethernet card and the
> second near impossibility is finding anyone who even remembers how to set
> a dos box up so it will work on ethernet. Too many people suffered too
> much Windows brain rot over the years and even those that once knew how
> to do this I know have forgotten how to do it.

I'm not sure what the point of this comment is, given that I
pointed out the two necessary resources to put working ethernet
on a DOS box.

It's not particularly difficult, and since it can all be done
from a simple commmand line, it's very likely to be a good
solution for a screen-reader user.

Oh, and Crynwr is the Welsh word for Quaker, and is pronounced
cru-noor, approximately.

http://bat8.inria.fr/~lang/hotlist/free/use/crynwr.html


-dsr-

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