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Old 09-03-2011, 08:14 PM
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

just a word of warning: on absolutely no account, not for any reason,
should you buy WD "Green" drives.

i've just spent a hair-raising 6 weeks discovering that these drives,
when pushed above a mere 40 Centigrade, become so unstable that they
can actually become completely unresponsive, shut down, and leave the
linux kernel in a completely unstable state, especially if they are
part of a RAID1 mirror.

it merely takes something such as .... ooo, copying the data? or...
shock, horror, writing a file, to raise the temperatures enough to
cause them to become unstable. and as for actually doing a RAID check
or a RAID1 re-join - well, you know how normally the mdadm mismatch
count is supposed to be zero? well, by the time the re-build is
complete, the mismatch count is up to 170,000.

now, you may be thinking "surely, that was just unlucky with two
drives, right?" wrong - the total number of drives used for this RAID1
mirror was *four* drives [cf: earlier very helpful discussion
involving a script which someone published - thanks! - that detected
partly-complete RAID mirrors]

so, whilst most people are finding that these drives are "great", the
reality is that they are only "fantastic" if you don't actually use
them. the moment you try to do a backup of them (for example if
they're failing) then it is too late: you will be absolutely
guaranteed to have lost all the data.

according to the mdadm mismatch count as a standard heuristic /
guideline to determine whether drives should be replaced, strictly
speaking, these drives are already end-of-life. but being sold as
new.

now, apparently, what Western Digital do is they test new drives
thoroughly, and if they pass with flying colours, they are labelled
"black" and sold for more money. if they fail, then they're
"re-programmed" to run a bit slower, thus making less noise, use less
power, and can therefore justify being sold with a "green" label.

unfortunately what that means is that Western Digital are knowingly
selling faulty drives, *knowingly* trying to pass off
unfit-for-purpose drives as "new".

if you have purchased WD "Elements" or any other "Green" Drives, you
should perform a SLOW backup, ensuring that the temperature never goes
above 38C in the process, and return them as "unfit for purpose" to
wherever you bought them from.

by contrast, hitachi's 1.5tb drives which were £70 each off of ebuyer
(instead of £55 for the WD Elements including the external USB case)
run consistently at a full FOUR degrees centigrade lower temperature,
even when the WD Green Drive was removed from its USB case and placed
into the exact same server in which the hitachi drive was present.

four identical WD Elements drives - all of them completely unfit for
purpose. that's not an accident, and i am not the only person who has
experienced difficulties with these drives (different batch, different
supplier).

l.


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Old 09-03-2011, 09:03 PM
shawn wilson
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

So, I can understand your frustration but, 4 discs out of how many thousands they make every day? That's not that conclusive. That said, iirc the reviews about a year ago did say that this was a very consumer drive. I don't remember hearing them break but...


On Sep 3, 2011 4:30 PM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" <luke.leighton@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> just a word of warning: on absolutely no account, not for any reason,

> should you buy WD "Green" drives.

>

> i've just spent a hair-raising 6 weeks discovering that these drives,

> when pushed above a mere 40 Centigrade, become so unstable that they

> can actually become completely unresponsive, shut down, and leave the

> linux kernel in a completely unstable state, especially if they are

> part of a RAID1 mirror.

>

> it merely takes something such as .... ooo, copying the data? *or...

> shock, horror, writing a file, to raise the temperatures enough to

> cause them to become unstable. *and as for actually doing a RAID check

> or a RAID1 re-join - well, you know how normally the mdadm mismatch

> count is supposed to be zero? *well, by the time the re-build is

> complete, the mismatch count is up to 170,000.

>

> now, you may be thinking "surely, that was just unlucky with two

> drives, right?" wrong - the total number of drives used for this RAID1

> mirror was *four* drives [cf: earlier very helpful discussion

> involving a script which someone published - thanks! - that detected

> partly-complete RAID mirrors]

>

> so, whilst most people are finding that these drives are "great", the

> reality is that they are only "fantastic" if you don't actually use

> them. *the moment you try to do a backup of them (for example if

> they're failing) then it is too late: you will be absolutely

> guaranteed to have lost all the data.

>

> according to the mdadm mismatch count as a standard heuristic /

> guideline to determine whether drives should be replaced, strictly

> speaking, these drives are already end-of-life. *but being sold as

> new.

>

> now, apparently, what Western Digital do is they test new drives

> thoroughly, and if they pass with flying colours, they are labelled

> "black" and sold for more money. *if they fail, then they're

> "re-programmed" to run a bit slower, thus making less noise, use less

> power, and can therefore justify being sold with a "green" label.

>


Source?


> unfortunately what that means is that Western Digital are knowingly

> selling faulty drives, *knowingly* trying to pass off

> unfit-for-purpose drives as "new".

>


BTW, Intel and AMD (and probably every other chip maker) does the same. Why not do it with discs.


> if you have purchased WD "Elements" or any other "Green" Drives, you

> should perform a SLOW backup, ensuring that the temperature never goes

> above 38C in the process, and return them as "unfit for purpose" to

> wherever you bought them from.

>

> by contrast, hitachi's 1.5tb drives which were £70 each off of ebuyer

> (instead of £55 for the WD Elements including the external USB case)

> run consistently at a full FOUR degrees centigrade lower temperature,

> even when the WD Green Drive was removed from its USB case and placed

> into the exact same server in which the hitachi drive was present.

>


I'm sure I can find someone saying the exact opposite about WD vs Hitachi if you look. It just depends on how many discs you run into.


> four identical WD Elements drives - all of them completely unfit for

> purpose. *that's not an accident, and i am not the only person who has

> experienced difficulties with these drives (different batch, different

> supplier).


BTW I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you're not right If you had 10+ desktops with discs you kept needing to rma, I might see your point. But just 4 of the cheapest discs out there (unknown fs, no bench / profile data, kernel version, etc) and minimal troubleshooting data is very inconclusive to me.



So come again. Do not buy, why?
 
Old 09-03-2011, 09:23 PM
"Chris"
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

Meh
I understand the original post.
While the ops reasoning and possible lack of data to prove such a claim may not be to the level of some folks, I do understand the advice based on the ops experiance.

Case in point, My wires pc had WD drives, simply removing it from the pc was enough to crash it. No, if was a simple unplug and plugin after the fact.

At that point, my opinions of WD drives were formulated. My opinion based on a real life experiance. Since then I have never regretted moving to and staying with Seagate.


Sent from my HTC.

----- Reply message -----
From: "shawn wilson" <ag4ve.us@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Sep 3, 2011 4:03 pm
Subject: DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)
To: <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Cc: <debian-user@lists.debian.org>



So, I can understand your frustration but, 4 discs out of how many thousands they make every day? That's not that conclusive. That said, iirc the reviews about a year ago did say that this was a very consumer drive. I don't remember hearing them break but...


On Sep 3, 2011 4:30 PM, "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" <luke.leighton@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> just a word of warning: on absolutely no account, not for any reason,

> should you buy WD "Green" drives.

>

> i've just spent a hair-raising 6 weeks discovering that these drives,

> when pushed above a mere 40 Centigrade, become so unstable that they

> can actually become completely unresponsive, shut down, and leave the

> linux kernel in a completely unstable state, especially if they are

> part of a RAID1 mirror.

>

> it merely takes something such as .... ooo, copying the data? *or...

> shock, horror, writing a file, to raise the temperatures enough to

> cause them to become unstable. *and as for actually doing a RAID check

> or a RAID1 re-join - well, you know how normally the mdadm mismatch

> count is supposed to be zero? *well, by the time the re-build is

> complete, the mismatch count is up to 170,000.

>

> now, you may be thinking "surely, that was just unlucky with two

> drives, right?" wrong - the total number of drives used for this RAID1

> mirror was *four* drives [cf: earlier very helpful discussion

> involving a script which someone published - thanks! - that detected

> partly-complete RAID mirrors]

>

> so, whilst most people are finding that these drives are "great", the

> reality is that they are only "fantastic" if you don't actually use

> them. *the moment you try to do a backup of them (for example if

> they're failing) then it is too late: you will be absolutely

> guaranteed to have lost all the data.

>

> according to the mdadm mismatch count as a standard heuristic /

> guideline to determine whether drives should be replaced, strictly

> speaking, these drives are already end-of-life. *but being sold as

> new.

>

> now, apparently, what Western Digital do is they test new drives

> thoroughly, and if they pass with flying colours, they are labelled

> "black" and sold for more money. *if they fail, then they're

> "re-programmed" to run a bit slower, thus making less noise, use less

> power, and can therefore justify being sold with a "green" label.

>


Source?


> unfortunately what that means is that Western Digital are knowingly

> selling faulty drives, *knowingly* trying to pass off

> unfit-for-purpose drives as "new".

>


BTW, Intel and AMD (and probably every other chip maker) does the same. Why not do it with discs.


> if you have purchased WD "Elements" or any other "Green" Drives, you

> should perform a SLOW backup, ensuring that the temperature never goes

> above 38C in the process, and return them as "unfit for purpose" to

> wherever you bought them from.

>

> by contrast, hitachi's 1.5tb drives which were £70 each off of ebuyer

> (instead of £55 for the WD Elements including the external USB case)

> run consistently at a full FOUR degrees centigrade lower temperature,

> even when the WD Green Drive was removed from its USB case and placed

> into the exact same server in which the hitachi drive was present.

>


I'm sure I can find someone saying the exact opposite about WD vs Hitachi if you look. It just depends on how many discs you run into.


> four identical WD Elements drives - all of them completely unfit for

> purpose. *that's not an accident, and i am not the only person who has

> experienced difficulties with these drives (different batch, different

> supplier).


BTW I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you're not right If you had 10+ desktops with discs you kept needing to rma, I might see your point. But just 4 of the cheapest discs out there (unknown fs, no bench / profile data, kernel version, etc) and minimal troubleshooting data is very inconclusive to me.



So come again. Do not buy, why?
 
Old 09-04-2011, 12:48 AM
Mike Castle
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
<luke.leighton@gmail.com> wrote:
> just a word of warning: on absolutely no account, not for any reason,
> should you buy WD "Green" drives.
>
> i've just spent a hair-raising 6 weeks discovering that these drives,
> when pushed above a mere 40 Centigrade, become so unstable that they
> can actually become completely unresponsive, shut down, and leave the
> linux kernel in a completely unstable state, especially if they are
> part of a RAID1 mirror.

For what it's worth, WD _does_ say not to use Green drives in RAID and such.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1397

mrc


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Old 09-04-2011, 02:03 AM
Aaron Toponce
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 09:14:02PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> just a word of warning: on absolutely no account, not for any reason,
> should you buy WD "Green" drives.

TL;DR

I am familiar with a storage company who has thousands of these exact
drives, all in JBODs and RAID arrays. They are pushed hard, daily. Other
than standard drive failures as would be expected with any service like
this, there is no issue.

--
. o . o . o . . o o . . . o .
. . o . o o o . o . o o . . o
o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o
 
Old 09-04-2011, 04:30 AM
lina
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

Last weekend I specially visited those IT malls,
which was filled with the WD portable hard drive.

I was surprised, why the hell so "LOTS" of them.

while for some other brands, couple of sample stayed in corner,

Lots of stores even they don't have the seagate ones.

it might the WD plans to earn a big market
or the profit for the stores who sold them the rebate is high??
just guess ... might be wrong, might lots of people coming for WD,
so the stores only sold WD.


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Old 09-04-2011, 07:23 AM
Miles Bader
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> writes:
> just guess ... might be wrong, might lots of people coming for WD,
> so the stores only sold WD.

Dunno, but I've had extremely good experiences with WD drives in the
past, so I'd definitely favor them when I buy a new one...

-Miles

--
Brain, n. An apparatus with which we think we think.


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Old 09-04-2011, 07:41 AM
shawn wilson
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

On Sep 4, 2011 3:23 AM, "Miles Bader" <miles@gnu.org> wrote:

>

> lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> writes:

> > just guess ... *might be wrong, might lots of people coming for WD,

> > so the stores only sold WD.

>

> Dunno, but I've had extremely good experiences with WD drives in the

> past, so I'd definitely favor them when I buy a new one...


I have absolutely no oppinion. I was merely pointing out that the OP was presenting his oppinion as fact and I thought that pretty messed up.


Grented, due to the inciteful the subject was, I'm sure this thread will keep going for at least a week and most of us will remember something bad about WD the next time we go buy a disc. Oh well. The OP probably* got his wish
 
Old 09-04-2011, 08:13 AM
Joe
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 16:23:06 +0900
Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:

> lina <lina.lastname@gmail.com> writes:
> > just guess ... might be wrong, might lots of people coming for WD,
> > so the stores only sold WD.
>
> Dunno, but I've had extremely good experiences with WD drives in the
> past, so I'd definitely favor them when I buy a new one...
>
>

Funny, isn't it? Of the dozen or so failed drives I've seen over a
long period (I'm not a full-time IT professional) only three have not
been WD (Seagate Barracuda, just over a year old, Maxtor about five
years old, Rodime 40MB about four years old).

The first I saw was a WD 30MB hardcard, which wouldn't start up.
Fortunately, it had an external (!) rotating part, and it was possible
to get a finger to it to kick-start it, after which the data could be
recovered.

--
Joe


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Old 09-04-2011, 09:54 AM
Camaleón
 
Default DO NOT BUY Western Digital "Green" Drives (also present in WD "Elements" external USB cases)

On Sat, 03 Sep 2011 17:48:33 -0700, Mike Castle wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
> <luke.leighton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> just a word of warning: on absolutely no account, not for any reason,
>> should you buy WD "Green" drives.
>>
>> i've just spent a hair-raising 6 weeks discovering that these drives,
>> when pushed above a mere 40 Centigrade, become so unstable that they
>> can actually become completely unresponsive, shut down, and leave the
>> linux kernel in a completely unstable state, especially if they are
>> part of a RAID1 mirror.
>
> For what it's worth, WD _does_ say not to use Green drives in RAID and
> such.
>
> http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1397

Good catch.

But regardless WD statement, there is no compelling reason for a hard
drive going down or start failing at 40‚ĄÉ, that's absurd.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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