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Old 09-01-2011, 03:13 PM
 
Default sources.list directory specification

I am trying to compose a sources.list file for each of three machines;
one is for Lenny (oldstable), one is for Squeeze (stable), and one is
for Wheezy (testing).

According to "Index of /pub/debian/dists" at
http://ftp.pl.debian.org/pub/debian/dists/ ,
for Squeeze there are three directories, namely:

=> squeeze

=> squeeze-updates

=> squeeze-proposed-updates

Likewise, for Lenny there are two directories, namely:

=> lenny

=> lenny-proposed-updates

And for Wheezy, there are two directories, namely:

=> wheezy

=> wheezy-proposed-updates

However, the Debian Sources List Generator
(http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/) and numerous sources.list examples
posted on the web by various individuals use the form:

=> lenny/updates

=> squeeze/updates

=> wheezy/updates

rather than:

=> lenny-updates

=> squeeze-updates

=> wheezy-updates

Which form is correct? is it permissible to use either form? may the
forms be mixed within a single sources.list file?

RLH


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Old 09-01-2011, 04:15 PM
Camalen
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:13:39 -0500, rlharris wrote:

(...)

> Which form is correct? is it permissible to use either form? may the
> forms be mixed within a single sources.list file?

To be in the safe-side, I would stay with the one that matches your "man
sources.list".

Anyway, there can be repos with specific nomenclature needings, like
"squeeze-updates" or "squeeze-proposed-updates" but adding those repos
are a personal option.

http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#stable-updates
http://www.debian.org/releases/proposed-updates

Greetings,

--
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:06 PM
Tom H
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM, <rlharris@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>
> I am trying to compose a sources.list file for each of three machines;
> one is for Lenny (oldstable), one is for Squeeze (stable), and one is
> for Wheezy (testing).
>
> According to "Index of /pub/debian/dists" at
> http://ftp.pl.debian.org/pub/debian/dists/ ,
> for Squeeze there are three directories, namely:
>
> * *=> squeeze
> * *=> squeeze-updates
> * *=> squeeze-proposed-updates
>
> Likewise, for Lenny there are two directories, namely:
>
> * *=> lenny
> * *=> lenny-proposed-updates
>
> And for Wheezy, there are two directories, namely:
>
> * *=> wheezy
> * *=> wheezy-proposed-updates
>
> However, the Debian Sources List Generator
> (http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/) and numerous sources.list examples
> posted on the web by various individuals use the form:
>
> * *=> lenny/updates
> * *=> squeeze/updates
> * *=> wheezy/updates
>
> rather than:
>
> * *=> lenny-updates
> * *=> squeeze-updates
> * *=> wheezy-updates
>
> Which form is correct? is it permissible to use either form? *may the
> forms be mixed within a single sources.list file?

LENNY

deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny-proposed-updates main
contrib non-free

SQUEEZE

deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-proposed-updates main
contrib non-free

WHEEZY
s/squeeze/wheezy/g

"<release>/updates" is meant for security updates.
"<release>-updates" is a Squeeze/Wheezy replacement of Lenny's "lenny/volatile".
"<release>-proposed-updates" is meant for testing packages before
they're released.


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Old 09-02-2011, 05:19 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On 02/09/11 03:06, Tom H wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM,<rlharris@hal-pc.org> wrote:


I am trying to compose a sources.list file for each of three machines;
one is for Lenny (oldstable), one is for Squeeze (stable), and one is
for Wheezy (testing).

According to "Index of /pub/debian/dists" at
http://ftp.pl.debian.org/pub/debian/dists/ ,
for Squeeze there are three directories, namely:

� �=> squeeze
� �=> squeeze-updates
� �=> squeeze-proposed-updates

Likewise, for Lenny there are two directories, namely:

� �=> lenny
� �=> lenny-proposed-updates

And for Wheezy, there are two directories, namely:

� �=> wheezy
� �=> wheezy-proposed-updates

However, the Debian Sources List Generator
(http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/) and numerous sources.list examples
posted on the web by various individuals use the form:

� �=> lenny/updates
� �=> squeeze/updates
� �=> wheezy/updates

rather than:

� �=> lenny-updates
� �=> squeeze-updates
� �=> wheezy-updates

Which form is correct? is it permissible to use either form? �may the
forms be mixed within a single sources.list file?


Yes - though you might consider reading up on pinning.



LENNY

deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny-proposed-updates main
contrib non-free

SQUEEZE

deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
# deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-proposed-updates main
contrib non-free

WHEEZY
s/squeeze/wheezy/g

"<release>/updates" is meant for security updates.
"<release>-updates" is a Squeeze/Wheezy replacement of Lenny's "lenny/volatile".
"<release>-proposed-updates" is meant for testing packages before
they're released.




1++
I'd echo Tom's suggestions.

NOTE: http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ doesn't appear to be an official
Debian site, strangely it's located in China, registered in Switzerland,
by a German (!)


I'd be cautious about enabling backports, proposed, and, especially,
multimedia - except on a case-by-case basis (enable when needed, install
only what cannot be got from the standard repo, disable when done).


Cheers


--
"I'm just so sick of airports, sitting on planes on runways and the
planes won't take off.
Every time I read about a hijacking on the news I just think to myself
- just do it - let's see how far you get, I paid and didn't get off the
ground.
I've thought about that too - dreamed of it - putting a gun to the
pilot's head. That would feel so good.

"this is a hijacking"
"where do you want to go - Cuba?"
"No, I want to go where this plane was supposed to be five hours ago"
That's right, I'm hijacking this plane to it's scheduled destination."
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-02-2011, 09:37 AM
Dejan Ribič
 
Default sources.list directory specification

Dne 02. 09. 2011 07:19, piše Scott Ferguson:
> On 02/09/11 03:06, Tom H wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM,<rlharris@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am trying to compose a sources.list file for each of three machines;
>>> one is for Lenny (oldstable), one is for Squeeze (stable), and one is
>>> for Wheezy (testing).
>>>
>>> According to "Index of /pub/debian/dists" at
>>> http://ftp.pl.debian.org/pub/debian/dists/ ,
>>> for Squeeze there are three directories, namely:
>>>
>>> � �=> squeeze
>>> � �=> squeeze-updates
>>> � �=> squeeze-proposed-updates
>>>
>>> Likewise, for Lenny there are two directories, namely:
>>>
>>> � �=> lenny
>>> � �=> lenny-proposed-updates
>>>
>>> And for Wheezy, there are two directories, namely:
>>>
>>> � �=> wheezy
>>> � �=> wheezy-proposed-updates
>>>
>>> However, the Debian Sources List Generator
>>> (http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/) and numerous sources.list examples
>>> posted on the web by various individuals use the form:
>>>
>>> � �=> lenny/updates
>>> � �=> squeeze/updates
>>> � �=> wheezy/updates
>>>
>>> rather than:
>>>
>>> � �=> lenny-updates
>>> � �=> squeeze-updates
>>> � �=> wheezy-updates
>>>
>>> Which form is correct? is it permissible to use either form? �may the
>>> forms be mixed within a single sources.list file?
>
> Yes - though you might consider reading up on pinning.
>
>>
>> LENNY
>>
>> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
>> deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
>> contrib non-free
>> deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free
>> # deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny-proposed-updates main
>> contrib non-free
>>
>> SQUEEZE
>>
>> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
>> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib
>> non-free
>> deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
>> # deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-proposed-updates main
>> contrib non-free
>>
>> WHEEZY
>> s/squeeze/wheezy/g
>>
>> "<release>/updates" is meant for security updates.
>> "<release>-updates" is a Squeeze/Wheezy replacement of Lenny's
>> "lenny/volatile".
>> "<release>-proposed-updates" is meant for testing packages before
>> they're released.
>>
>>
>
> 1++
> I'd echo Tom's suggestions.
>
> NOTE: http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ doesn't appear to be an official
> Debian site, strangely it's located in China, registered in
> Switzerland, by a German (!)
>
> I'd be cautious about enabling backports, proposed, and, especially,
> multimedia - except on a case-by-case basis (enable when needed,
> install only what cannot be got from the standard repo, disable when
> done).
>
> Cheers
>
>
Hi,

well I've been using the backports and proposeds for awhile now and
everything works perfectly, besides Debian Backports are official part
of Debian as far as I know, so there is at least some QA involved, I think.

Cheers,

Dejan


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Old 09-02-2011, 12:18 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On 02/09/11 19:37, Dejan Ribič wrote:

Dne 02. 09. 2011 07:19, piše Scott Ferguson:

On 02/09/11 03:06, Tom H wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM,<rlharris@hal-pc.org> wrote:



<snipped>



I'd be cautious about enabling backports, proposed, and, especially,
multimedia - except on a case-by-case basis (enable when needed,
install only what cannot be got from the standard repo, disable when
done).

Cheers



Hi,

well I've been using the backports and proposeds for awhile now and
everything works perfectly, besides Debian Backports are official part
of Debian as far as I know, so there is at least some QA involved, I think.

Cheers,

Dejan




Please don't be offended, it's not a criticism of your choices, or
implying that those (backports and proposed) repositories are full of
flakey packages. Multimedia is not flakey either *but* it will cause
problems unless you are careful.


Backports are (often) rebuilt to use libraries they were not designed
for (they are a compromise)[*1], Proposed is just that (in *testing* for
the point release). Most of the time you won't have problems, and if you
do, it'll usually be with backports. Backports *is* an official
repository - as are all repositories hosted by Debian - but QA testing
on backport packages is limited (and backports are there for
convenience, not as proposed fixes for problems), whereas proposed QA is
wider (but still requires your testing before being eligible for point
release).



Enabling those repositories on a constant basis means you have no idea
what will come down if you go:-

# apt-get update; apt-get upgrade (or dist-upgrade)
This can make live interesting, but it robs you of the control you
exercise when you enable selectively eg. I want the latest version of
Amarok because it has x, but everything else is to my satisfaction.


If you always enable proposed, and backports, and, have never had any
issues, then maybe you've not been running them for many years. My
experiences may just be a KDE4/qt/dbus/grub thing.


You may also be using the context of a hobby desktop, not a production
environment where any minor conflict can be considered a major issue
(people file service requests instead of working etc).


I'll stick to "enable when needed" as I don't believe "enable just in
case I need it" is a good idea in the long term, and I'm interested in
the long term :-)


Cheers

[*1]"It is recommended to select single backports which fit your needs,
and not to use all available backports."

http://backports-master.debian.org/

[*2]"..., packages in stable-proposed-updates aren't yet officially part
of Debian Stable and one should not assume is has the same quality and
stability (yet!). Those new versions of the packages needs to be
reviewed (by the stable release manager) and tested (by some users)
before entering stable."

http://wiki.debian.org/StableProposedUpdates
NOTE: stable is not the only branch that receives updates

--
"I'm just so sick of airports, sitting on planes on runways and the
planes won't take off.
Every time I read about a hijacking on the news I just think to myself
- just do it - let's see how far you get, I paid and didn't get off the
ground.
I've thought about that too - dreamed of it - putting a gun to the
pilot's head. That would feel so good.

"this is a hijacking"
"where do you want to go - Cuba?"
"No, I want to go where this plane was supposed to be five hours ago"
That's right, I'm hijacking this plane to it's scheduled destination."
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-02-2011, 02:20 PM
Dejan Ribič
 
Default sources.list directory specification

Dne 2.9.2011 14:18, piše Scott Ferguson:

On 02/09/11 19:37, Dejan Ribič wrote:

Dne 02. 09. 2011 07:19, piše Scott Ferguson:

On 02/09/11 03:06, Tom H wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM,<rlharris@hal-pc.org> wrote:



<snipped>



I'd be cautious about enabling backports, proposed, and, especially,
multimedia - except on a case-by-case basis (enable when needed,
install only what cannot be got from the standard repo, disable when
done).

Cheers



Hi,

well I've been using the backports and proposeds for awhile now and
everything works perfectly, besides Debian Backports are official part
of Debian as far as I know, so there is at least some QA involved, I
think.


Cheers,

Dejan




Please don't be offended, it's not a criticism of your choices, or
implying that those (backports and proposed) repositories are full of
flakey packages. Multimedia is not flakey either *but* it will cause
problems unless you are careful.


Backports are (often) rebuilt to use libraries they were not designed
for (they are a compromise)[*1], Proposed is just that (in *testing*
for the point release). Most of the time you won't have problems, and
if you do, it'll usually be with backports. Backports *is* an official
repository - as are all repositories hosted by Debian - but QA testing
on backport packages is limited (and backports are there for
convenience, not as proposed fixes for problems), whereas proposed QA
is wider (but still requires your testing before being eligible for
point release).



Enabling those repositories on a constant basis means you have no idea
what will come down if you go:-

# apt-get update; apt-get upgrade (or dist-upgrade)
This can make live interesting, but it robs you of the control you
exercise when you enable selectively eg. I want the latest version of
Amarok because it has x, but everything else is to my satisfaction.


If you always enable proposed, and backports, and, have never had any
issues, then maybe you've not been running them for many years. My
experiences may just be a KDE4/qt/dbus/grub thing.


You may also be using the context of a hobby desktop, not a production
environment where any minor conflict can be considered a major issue
(people file service requests instead of working etc).


I'll stick to "enable when needed" as I don't believe "enable just in
case I need it" is a good idea in the long term, and I'm interested in
the long term :-)


Cheers

[*1]"It is recommended to select single backports which fit your
needs, and not to use all available backports."

http://backports-master.debian.org/

[*2]"..., packages in stable-proposed-updates aren't yet officially
part of Debian Stable and one should not assume is has the same
quality and stability (yet!). Those new versions of the packages needs
to be reviewed (by the stable release manager) and tested (by some
users) before entering stable."

http://wiki.debian.org/StableProposedUpdates
NOTE: stable is not the only branch that receives updates


Hi,

You are right in that I have a limited experience with backports, for
instance I've never used KDE4/Qt( well except QtOctave, but thats not
even in backports).
On another note I do have a Debian server with Squeeze installed and on
that machine I use neither, which also stores my monthly(/home/ backed
up weekly) CloneZilla images of the desktop PC, so maybe that is why I
use backports/proposed freely, because I know that if I mess up
something I can simply restore it with minimal loss of time or data.
My point is I agree with you, if you are using production machine and
you can't afford that some simple package like for instance Amarok
breaks it then it is best to "enable when needed".


Cheers,

Dejan


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Old 09-02-2011, 10:27 PM
Lisi
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On Friday 02 September 2011 13:18:00 Scott Ferguson wrote:
> Enabling those repositories on a constant basis means you have no idea
> what will come down if you go:-
> # apt-get update; apt-get upgrade (or dist-upgrade)

I have backports permanently enabled, but packages are only downloaded if I
explicitly ask for them (-t lenny-backports) and are only updated from the
backports repository if I have explicitly installed from there. The
marvellous Debian sets the pinning appropriately automatically:

/etc/apt/preferences

Package: *
Pin: release a=lenny-backports
Pin-Priority: 200

I update daily on my main machine, and full-upgrade if there are updates. And
I have done this for some years, and on more than one computer, without a
problem.

Everything else gets updated from the Lenny repositories when I aptitude
full-upgrade (the equivalent of apt-get dist-upgrade), other than things that
came out of the multimedia, opera or google-chrome repositories.

Lisi


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Old 09-03-2011, 09:06 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On 03/09/11 00:20, Dejan Ribič wrote:

Dne 2.9.2011 14:18, piše Scott Ferguson:

On 02/09/11 19:37, Dejan Ribič wrote:

Dne 02. 09. 2011 07:19, piše Scott Ferguson:

On 02/09/11 03:06, Tom H wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM,<rlharris@hal-pc.org> wrote:



<snipped>

<snipped>


Hi,

You are right in that I have a limited experience with backports, for
instance I've never used KDE4/Qt( well except QtOctave, but thats not
even in backports).
On another note I do have a Debian server with Squeeze installed and on
that machine I use neither, which also stores my monthly(/home/ backed
up weekly) CloneZilla images of the desktop PC, so maybe that is why I
use backports/proposed freely, because I know that if I mess up
something I can simply restore it with minimal loss of time or data.
My point is I agree with you, if you are using production machine and
you can't afford that some simple package like for instance Amarok
breaks it then it is best to "enable when needed".

Cheers,

Dejan


I was attempting (and failing) to clarify the OPs query about options on
http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ and managed to sound alarmist. I suggested
pinning is adding the non-default repos (default being the ones created
by the installer) - seems that suggestion was missed by other readers...


Most of the time, as you've experienced, you'll have no problems - in
your case the backup strategy minimizes downtime anyway. And someone has
to test proposed ;-p
It's early days, but I've yet to have a problem with squeeze-backports
for iceweasel and icedove, for which I don't use pinning.


And, I make exceptions for Amarok (it's so good!). Even though it
crashes instead of smoothly shutting down I'll continue to use it. :-)


I prefer Debian because I believe it gives me the most choices. I
believe choices is a good thing (not everyone agrees). So I make
suggestions in an effort to allow choices.


Cheers

--
"I'm so tired....
I need my sleep, I really do, I need about 8 hours a day - and about 10
at night

And then I'm good."
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-03-2011, 09:35 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default sources.list directory specification

On 03/09/11 08:27, Lisi wrote:

On Friday 02 September 2011 13:18:00 Scott Ferguson wrote:

Enabling those repositories on a constant basis means you have no
idea what will come down if you go:- # apt-get update; apt-get
upgrade (or dist-upgrade)


I have backports permanently enabled, but packages are only
downloaded if I explicitly ask for them (-t lenny-backports) and are
only updated from the backports repository if I have explicitly
installed from there. The marvellous Debian sets the pinning
appropriately automatically:

/etc/apt/preferences

Package: * Pin: release a=lenny-backports Pin-Priority: 200


So - you are just doing as I suggested. Being selective (except you were
doing it long before I suggested it, and I was only echoing the
documentation)


"Hidden" in my original post was this:-


Yes - though you might consider reading up on pinning.

;-p



I update daily on my main machine, and full-upgrade if there are
updates. And I have done this for some years, and on more than one
computer, without a problem.


Likewise when I used Lenny (and Etch) as desktops - it wasn't until I
started using KDE4 backported packages that things went awry.




Everything else gets updated from the Lenny repositories when I
aptitude full-upgrade (the equivalent of apt-get dist-upgrade), other
than things that came out of the multimedia, opera or google-chrome
repositories.

Lisi




And you've had no problems with transcode (ffmpeg etc) and vlc from
Multimedia breaking stuff??

Cheers

--
"I'm so tired....
I need my sleep, I really do, I need about 8 hours a day - and about 10
at night
And then I'm good."
— Bill Hicks


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