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Vecu BOSSEUR 06-24-2011 05:36 PM

Unread bug reports ?
 
Hi,

It is ~a week~ or more now that I filed two bug reports.

- Bug #630237 related to FUSE
( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630237 )
- Bug #630903 related to FUSECOMPRESS
( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630903 )

I wondered if any single people caugth them !

The one the most interesting to me is the FUSE bug.

The other one really is not really a problem cauz' there's no solution
: FUSECOMPRESS has always been a bullshit !

Have you been stricken by those bugs ?

Don't hesitate to tell your experience.

In hope this booster will prove useful.

Regards,
Valentin


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Scott Ferguson 06-25-2011 04:27 AM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On 25/06/11 03:36, Vecu BOSSEUR wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It is ~a week~ or more now that I filed two bug reports.
>
> - Bug #630237 related to FUSE
> ( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630237 )
> - Bug #630903 related to FUSECOMPRESS
> ( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630903 )
>
> I wondered if any single people caugth them !

People have responded to your posted bug...

>
> The one the most interesting to me is the FUSE bug.
>
> The other one really is not really a problem cauz' there's no solution
> : FUSECOMPRESS has always been a bullsh&t !

Please comply with the posting rules - ^ it's not prudishness, it's a
legal issue. If you can't control what you post and respect the rules
why should any one take the time to help you?

NO F*&&%^G swearing in this list. Ok? :-)
See:-
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

>
> Have you been stricken by those bugs ?
>
> Don't hesitate to tell your experience.
>
> In hope this booster will prove useful.
>
> Regards,
> Valentin
>
>

1. Daniel Baumann might not work on the project full-time. He does not
appear to be paid for his work - so rudeness is not likely to motivate
him. Certainly there seems to be a lot of unresolved issues with that
particular project. Perhaps, if the issue is truly Debian, (not Ubuntu),
and you were to post the particulars here, some one might suggest a
solution.

2. The developer may have read and followed your bug report:-
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630237
which leads to this:-
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/737457/comments/3
where you say "The problem seem to have disappeared."
You also state that you are running Ubuntu "I always use the same
ntfs-3g version 1:2010.8.8-0ubuntu1 ." So how is that a Debian problem.

3. Why post to Ubuntu when you say the problem is Debian? Don't make it
more confused than it has to be. You contradict yourself and cross-post,
which make it more difficult to help you.

4. Your second Debian bug report was responded to by the maintainer
(Ritesh Raj Sarraf). The polite thing to do is follow his advice and
remain patient.

4. Your failure to observe the established conventions hardly
constitutes an emergency on anyone's part.


Cheers

--
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullsh#t. We're a
virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.
~ Bill Hicks


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Camaleón 06-25-2011 09:43 AM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:27:19 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:

> On 25/06/11 03:36, Vecu BOSSEUR wrote:

(...)

>> The other one really is not really a problem cauz' there's no solution
>> : FUSECOMPRESS has always been a bullsh&t !
>
> Please comply with the posting rules - ^ it's not prudishness, it's a
> legal issue. If you can't control what you post and respect the rules
> why should any one take the time to help you?
>
> NO F*&&%^G swearing in this list. Ok? :-) See:-
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

(...)

I can feel his pain :-(

You open a bug report willing to help and you get no reply... that's very
discouraging for the reporter. And I am not talking here about to get the
bug solved *now* but just a single reply that makes you think, "hey, at
least someone cares about it and it's being debugged".

But no reply is the "common" way for every bug tracking system I've used:
most of the time the bug is solved because is so old that the application
is no longer maintained >:-)

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Scott Ferguson 06-25-2011 10:39 AM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On 25/06/11 19:43, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:27:19 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>> On 25/06/11 03:36, Vecu BOSSEUR wrote:
>
> (...)
>

<snipped>

>
> (...)
>
> I can feel his pain :-(

Which does nothing to negate the problem caused when this list is
broadcast on side band where swearing is illegal, or when it offends
thin-skinned people.

I can validate his anguish also. I also know several developers who,
wrongly, have acted like sulky children when people demand things from
them.
And like watching someone shoving at the outward-opening door at the
Institute for the Intellectually Gifted I feel compelled to offer them a
more productive approach to the problem...

>
> You open a bug report willing to help and you get no reply... that's very
> discouraging for the reporter. And I am not talking here about to get the
> bug solved *now* but just a single reply that makes you think, "hey, at
> least someone cares about it and it's being debugged".

Here - have a hug. Feel better? ;-p

>
> But no reply is the "common" way for every bug tracking system I've used:
> most of the time the bug is solved because is so old that the application
> is no longer maintained >:-)
>
> Greetings,
>

I could have looked in the wrong places - but it didn't appear the
maintainer of the package in first quoted bug-report has been active
since January. But then I spent all of 2 minutes looking.

NOTE: the swearing, followed by the "it never worked" (if it never
worked, then it's not broken now!) was promptly answered by the
maintainer. Do you think the maintainer will be so quick to respond next
time?

All this would be a waste of time if there is no problem - you did get
the bit where it's an ubuntu package? Did you see the error message Vecu
posted? Is it the sort of thing "you'd" just leave to the package
maintainer to fix?
If it's a bug it's a bug, and the maintainer should know about it.
That's distinct from "the maintainer should fix it". If the maintainer
won't fix then someone who wants the problem resolved, should fix it.

Personally - I'd make real sure it was the maintainer fault before
filing a bug report, and I'd endeavour to find a fix to accompany the
bug report. If I managed to find a fix and a week passed without word
from the maintainer - then I'd post to this list. My 2c.


Cheers

--
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullsh#t. We're a
virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.
~ Bill Hicks


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Camaleón 06-25-2011 11:09 AM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:39:44 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:

> On 25/06/11 19:43, Camaleón wrote:

>> I can feel his pain :-(
>
> Which does nothing to negate the problem caused when this list is
> broadcast on side band where swearing is illegal, or when it offends
> thin-skinned people.

When you are frustrated, it's normal to use such terms. Nothing illegal
per se, at least not in my country. I've read worst things in another
mailing lists...

Yo can change that "bull****" with "crap" if you find it's a more
"politically correct" term for your soft mind >:-)

> I can validate his anguish also. I also know several developers who,
> wrongly, have acted like sulky children when people demand things from
> them.
> And like watching someone shoving at the outward-opening door at the
> Institute for the Intellectually Gifted I feel compelled to offer them a
> more productive approach to the problem...

Sure, bad reactions can go from both parts (reporter <-> developer).
Humans can always have a bad day.

>> You open a bug report willing to help and you get no reply... that's
>> very discouraging for the reporter. And I am not talking here about to
>> get the bug solved *now* but just a single reply that makes you think,
>> "hey, at least someone cares about it and it's being debugged".
>
> Here - have a hug. Feel better? ;-p

Nice try, but nope.

Should I wanted a hug I would have go to meetic not bugzilla ;-)

>> But no reply is the "common" way for every bug tracking system I've
>> used: most of the time the bug is solved because is so old that the
>> application is no longer maintained >:-)
>>
> I could have looked in the wrong places - but it didn't appear the
> maintainer of the package in first quoted bug-report has been active
> since January. But then I spent all of 2 minutes looking.

Which is fine... but in such cases there should be the figure of an
ombudsman, the "glue" that acts when no one is in charge of a package- or
that seems to be missing- that at least lets you know what is happening
and what's the bug status. With accurate information, you can quietly
wait or go upstream with the bug. You have more choices.

Not news is not good news is this case.

> NOTE: the swearing, followed by the "it never worked" (if it never
> worked, then it's not broken now!) was promptly answered by the
> maintainer. Do you think the maintainer will be so quick to respond next
> time?

(...)

I'm not judging the words expressed at the bugs reports but a situation
every bug reporter knows very well: when no one asks you for more
information on the problem and the bug falls into the Helm's deep in
forgotten realms. Then the last chance is "airing" the bug in mailing
lists and pray for someone reacts.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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"Hans-J. Ullrich" 06-25-2011 11:45 AM

Unread bug reports ?
 
Hi list,

well, I think, for users it is often not easy to report bugs. When I look at
myself, I am making updates almost every day, and doing so, bugs will be seen
very fast, So, if I report them first, this will cause several things:

1. People are annoyed: OMG, it is Hans again!
2. People can not reproduce it, as they use still theire older system and
think: Hmm, what is his problem? Here it is still working!
3. And not to forget: People are happy of their work. They do not have much
time, they are not paid for it and they do it in their free time (which is
becoming less and less). So IMO it is not motivating, to get many bugreports!

In my personal opinion, bugreports are ok, but it is always a problem, if a
package is causing problems at few users, although developers are always
willing to help (Thank you very much, indeed!!!)

An actual example from the past? I have a problem with ppp since wheezy (now
for almost a year!). It is definately a bug, but no one really cared. The
version from squeeze is running fine. I set this package on hold. What now?
Shall I mourne? No, I found my workaround.

Another example? Since kernel 2.6.32-5-amd64 I got problem with the module
ohci-hcd (masive annoying messages related to usb, bugreport was sent!)
No one cared, until I sent this bugreport directly to kernel.org. It shall now
fbe ixed in 2.6.39 release 2. So, 2,6.32, 2.6.38, 2.6.39 are not usable for
all people with Nvidia chipset on board. A long, long time! Shall I mourne?
No, I found my workaround by setting 2.6.32 on hold waiting now for months
that the problem will be fixed. And I am sure it will be fixed! And I know, that
they do it priceless. So that is very ok for me.

Some thing for my own: Dear developers, don't be bothered by my bugreports,
these are just for making things better! Thank you!

Best regards

Hans



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Scott Ferguson 06-25-2011 12:00 PM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On 25/06/11 21:09, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:39:44 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>> On 25/06/11 19:43, CamaleĂłn wrote:
>
<snipped>

>
> When you are frustrated, it's normal to use such terms. Nothing illegal
> per se, at least not in my country. I've read worst things in another
> mailing lists...

That you managed to ignore the key points is in order to start a
pointless flame war - is frustrating.

>
> Yo can change that "bull****" with "crap" if you find it's a more
> "politically correct" term for your soft mind >:-)

Your point??
Do you not understand what is meant by *"it's not prudishness, it's a
legal issue"*??
Does you method of reading these post chop off my signature??

I did not create the forum posting rules. Try reading them - they
haven't changed recently.

Perhaps you missed the bit in the post you are quoting where I said:-

Quote:

See:-
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
See the third last rule?

<snipped>

>
> Greetings,
>

In the interests of maintaining a civil, and constructive list - feel
free to email me off-list and express your real problem.

Cheers

--
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" *bullsh#t*. We're a
virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.
~ Bill Hicks


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Vecu BOSSEUR 06-25-2011 12:28 PM

Unread bug reports ?
 
Hi,

2011/6/25 Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com>:
> On 25/06/11 03:36, Vecu BOSSEUR wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> It is ~a week~ or more now that I filed two bug reports.
>>
>> * - Bug #630237 related to FUSE
>> * * ( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630237 )
>> * - Bug #630903 related to FUSECOMPRESS
>> * * ( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630903 )
>>
>> I wondered if any single people caugth them !
>
> People have responded to your posted bug...


You're true ; I've not been clear enough. What I meant was : Has any
user falled in the pit too ?

>
>>
>> The one the most interesting to me is the FUSE bug.
>>
>> The other one really is not really a problem cauz' there's no solution
>> : FUSECOMPRESS has always been a bullsh&t !
>
> Please comply with the posting rules - ^ it's not prudishness, it's a
> legal issue. If you can't control what you post and respect the rules
> why should any one take the time to help you?

Okay, good remainder. Cauz' I'm French, I use the word "merde" to
convey the same idea (in French) ; but I'm used to say that this
(French) word is no a swear because the Genaral Cambronne coined
himself this word at the Battle of Waterloo. It's just a culture
clash, indeed.

> NO F*&&%^G swearing in this list. Ok? :-)
> See:-
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
>
>>
>> Have you been stricken by those bugs ?
>>
>> Don't hesitate to tell your experience.
>>
>> In hope this booster will prove useful.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Valentin
>>
>>


> 1. Daniel Baumann might not work on the project full-time. He does not
> appear to be paid for his work - so rudeness is not likely to motivate
> him. Certainly there seems to be a lot of unresolved issues with that
> particular project. Perhaps, if the issue is truly Debian, (not Ubuntu),
> and you were to post the particulars here, some one might suggest a
> solution.

Maybe, with both luck and time ...
When is used said swears, I didn't intend to be rude at all. In the
contrary, I wanted to stress kindly the upstream maintainer and the
package maintainer a little bit so that they take into account the
severity of the trouble : a software package (any FuseCompress/Debian
versions considered) announced as reliable (i.e. in stable) which
causes serious data losses since Mathusalem, or even before !!!. Note
that my swear was not geared against either the upstream developper or
the package maintainer themselves, but towards the said piece of
software.

> 2. The developer may have read and followed your bug report:-
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=630237
> which leads to this:-
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fuse/+bug/737457/comments/3
> where you say "The problem seem to have disappeared."
> You also state that you are running Ubuntu "I always use the same
> ntfs-3g version 1:2010.8.8-0ubuntu1 ." So how is that a Debian problem.

My explanations follow your point 3. just following.

> 3. Why post to Ubuntu when you say the problem is Debian? Don't make it
> more confused than it has to be. You contradict yourself and cross-post,
> which make it more difficult to help you.

The bug I reported against Ubuntu (Natty Narwhal), and the bug I
reported against Debian (Wheezy) might not the same.
All that I said was that they both behaved the same way : they have
the same symptoms.

Note that the incriminated versions of the offending software are not
the same in Debain and Ubuntu.

Furthermore, it is true that I said the problem seemed to have
disappeared. But I missed a KEY POINT :

On Ubuntu, the bug disappeared after upgrading a *few* common system
packages (more info. later ...).

On Debian, on the contrary, while keeping my systems up-to-date, the
similar looking bug never disappear.

> 4. Your second Debian bug report was responded to by the maintainer
> (Ritesh Raj Sarraf). The polite thing to do is follow his advice and
> remain patient.

Well, you're wise, I have to admit.

But I had a message to convey, though.

And posting my message deosn't mean I'm not patient.

> 4. Your failure to observe the established conventions hardly
> constitutes an emergency on anyone's part.

It seems I didn't know perfecty how to observe these conventions. I
know how important it is to respect them, however.

You can safely consider me as a first class citizen of the comminuty
too ; I will progress w.r.t. the language we talk, which I'm not
familiar with (yet).

Note that I'm also a contributor to our fine community.

> Cheers
>
> --
> I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullsh#t. We're a
> virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.
> ~ Bill Hicks
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
> Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4E0563A7.7060104@gmail.com
>
>

I would like to thank you for having showed me how to behave better.

With much regards,
Valentin QUEQUET


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Camaleón 06-25-2011 01:25 PM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 22:00:50 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:

> On 25/06/11 21:09, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:39:44 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> When you are frustrated, it's normal to use such terms. Nothing illegal
>> per se, at least not in my country. I've read worst things in another
>> mailing lists...
>
> That you managed to ignore the key points is in order to start a
> pointless flame war - is frustrating.

I don't think the key point of this thread is about saying "bull****" or
whatever other word you find to be offensive, but about bug reports. You
centered the attention in something that is irrelevant.

>> Yo can change that "bull****" with "crap" if you find it's a more
>> "politically correct" term for your soft mind >:-)
>
> Your point??
> Do you not understand what is meant by *"it's not prudishness, it's a
> legal issue"*??
> Does you method of reading these post chop off my signature??

I don't know where are you trying to reach with all this waffle.

> I did not create the forum posting rules. Try reading them - they
> haven't changed recently.
>
> Perhaps you missed the bit in the post you are quoting where I said:-
>
>
Quote:

> See:-
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
>
> See the third last rule?

Relax.

Only people that know nothing about netiquette or politeness need to read
rules. And you don't just need to read the rules but understand their
meaning and be open-minded enough to know how interpret them.

If you felt offended by the OP, just say so, don't need to post a link to
the rules because, I for my self, don't find the OP's message breaks them.

And as you seem to like rules much, you can apply the one that encourages
mailing list users to "do not to flame; it is not polite."

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Scott Ferguson 06-25-2011 02:17 PM

Unread bug reports ?
 
On 25/06/11 22:28, Vecu BOSSEUR wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2011/6/25 Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com>:
>> On 25/06/11 03:36, Vecu BOSSEUR wrote:

<snipped>

>
> Okay, good remainder. Cauz' I'm French, I use the word "merde" to
> convey the same idea (in French) ; but I'm used to say that this
> (French) word is no a swear because the Genaral Cambronne coined
> himself this word at the Battle of Waterloo. It's just a culture
> clash, indeed.

No worries. I wasn't offended, I'm aware that many people are not aware
of the rule or it's reasons.

We don't make exceptions for the French. Being born in France is not a
valid handicap. We make exceptions for Australians ;-p


<snipped>

>
>
>> 1. Daniel Baumann might not work on the project full-time. He does not
>> appear to be paid for his work - so rudeness is not likely to motivate
>> him. Certainly there seems to be a lot of unresolved issues with that
>> particular project. Perhaps, if the issue is truly Debian, (not Ubuntu),
>> and you were to post the particulars here, some one might suggest a
>> solution.
>
> Maybe, with both luck and time ...
> When is used said swears, I didn't intend to be rude at all. In the
> contrary, I wanted to stress kindly the upstream maintainer and the
> package maintainer a little bit so that they take into account the
> severity of the trouble : a software package (any FuseCompress/Debian
> versions considered) announced as reliable (i.e. in stable) which
> causes serious data losses since Mathusalem, or even before !!!. Note
> that my swear was not geared against either the upstream developper or
> the package maintainer themselves, but towards the said piece of
> software.

Again, no worries. The suggestion (which is what my comment were meant
to be) were intended to help you find a solution.

>

<snipped.

>> You also state that you are running Ubuntu "I always use the same
>> ntfs-3g version 1:2010.8.8-0ubuntu1 ." So how is that a Debian problem.
>
> My explanations follow your point 3. just following.
>
>> 3. Why post to Ubuntu when you say the problem is Debian? Don't make it
>> more confused than it has to be. You contradict yourself and cross-post,
>> which make it more difficult to help you.
>
> The bug I reported against Ubuntu (Natty Narwhal), and the bug I
> reported against Debian (Wheezy) might not the same.
> All that I said was that they both behaved the same way : they have
> the same symptoms.

Ah - now I understand.
Please allow for my being Australian :-)

>

<snipped>

>
> You can safely consider me as a first class citizen of the comminuty
> too ; I will progress w.r.t. the language we talk, which I'm not
> familiar with (yet).
>
> Note that I'm also a contributor to our fine community.

IMO, anyone who takes the time to use Debian and is willing to keep
trying Debian when something doesn't "work out of the box" is a valuable
contributor. It's the short feedback loop between user and developer
that makes Open Source a superior development model.

>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --

<snipped>

>>
>>
>
> I would like to thank you for having showed me how to behave better.

Pas nécessaire, j'ai tellement de choses ŕ apprendre. :-/
Pardon my schoolboy French.

>
> With much regards,
> Valentin QUEQUET
>

Maybe if you post the details of the first bug report here we could have
a look at it (tomorrow night).

Cheers

P.S. Though you mailed me and CCed the list, I've not emailed you. If
you wish a CC just ask

--
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullsh#t. We're a
virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are.
~ Bill Hicks


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