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Camaleón 06-23-2011 03:42 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
Hello,

Yesterday I had to perform an new install with the latest wheezy snapshot
(weekly CD#1 image).

Some thoughs while dealing with the expert install...

1/ I could only get grub-pc, no more questions about installing GRUB
legacy or select the new version... is that right? I thought GRUB2 is
still an ongoing project, quite stable but still getting many
enhancements.

2/ I had to add additional online repositories to get the GNOME
environment, with the CD repos I get only the basic pattern and tools.
What does the first CD contain? Only the bare base packages?

3/ I had to select twice the option to load reiserfs module for the
partitioner. The first selection seemed that did not stick and had to
return to the main menu for a second time so I can get reiserfs
filesystem as an option.

Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my preferred
option for wheezy... is there any chance to get GRUB legacy at install
time or that option won't be present anymore?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Glenn English 06-23-2011 04:07 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Jun 23, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Camaleón wrote:

> Yesterday I had to perform an new install with the latest wheezy snapshot
> (weekly CD#1 image).
>
> Some thoughs while dealing with the expert install...
>
> 1/ I could only get grub-pc, no more questions about installing GRUB
> legacy or select the new version... is that right? I thought GRUB2 is
> still an ongoing project, quite stable but still getting many
> enhancements.

Same here, except I installed squeeze (netinst CD downloaded 3 or 4 days ago). I was surprised to see only GRUB2 available.

> Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my preferred
> option for wheezy...

This is a server, not a gaming console, that I'm loading up. And I have to admin it via SSH from 1K miles away. I'd really like to be able to use the hopelessly antiquated, but known working, GRUB legacy.

Squeeze maintainers, Did I not see something I should have? Is GRUB2 in good enough condition that it can be used on production servers? Is the next CD going to have GRUB legacy available?

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Glenn English



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Brian 06-23-2011 05:08 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Thu 23 Jun 2011 at 15:42:43 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my preferred
> option for wheezy... is there any chance to get GRUB legacy at install
> time or that option won't be present anymore?

Doesn't look like it. But grub-legacy awaits you after the install.


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Tom H 06-23-2011 05:42 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yesterday I had to perform an new install with the latest wheezy snapshot
> (weekly CD#1 image).
>
> 1/ I could only get grub-pc, no more questions about installing GRUB
> legacy or select the new version... is that right? I thought GRUB2 is
> still an ongoing project, quite stable but still getting many
> enhancements.
>
> Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my preferred
> option for wheezy... is there any chance to get GRUB legacy at install
> time or that option won't be present anymore?

I was surprised to see grub1 in Squeeze. It's still in the Wheezy and
Sid repos though, even if it isn't available through d-i.

Would grub2 really have been made the default in Squeeze if it weren't stable?

For the record, I prefer grub1's config to grub2's but grub2's been
almost problem-free for me for a long time. Almost: one small problem
(Karmic's grub2 couldn't recognize Fedora's initrd when creating a
Fedora menu entry) and one big problem (until last summer, grub2
couldn't boot from mdraid metadata 1.x).


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Camaleón 06-24-2011 03:14 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:07:10 -0600, Glenn English wrote:

> On Jun 23, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Camaleón wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I had to perform an new install with the latest wheezy
>> snapshot (weekly CD#1 image).
>>
>> Some thoughs while dealing with the expert install...
>>
>> 1/ I could only get grub-pc, no more questions about installing GRUB
>> legacy or select the new version... is that right? I thought GRUB2 is
>> still an ongoing project, quite stable but still getting many
>> enhancements.
>
> Same here, except I installed squeeze (netinst CD downloaded 3 or 4 days
> ago). I was surprised to see only GRUB2 available.

It has been also removed from there (squeeze)? Wow...

>> Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my
>> preferred option for wheezy...
>
> This is a server, not a gaming console, that I'm loading up. And I have
> to admin it via SSH from 1K miles away. I'd really like to be able to
> use the hopelessly antiquated, but known working, GRUB legacy.

+1

I do make tests for the new stuff (GRUB2, GNOME3, systemd -when/if it
comes, etc...) on separate computers, dedicated to such tasks.

On servers and workstations, though, I give a couple of years before
introducing new stuff and given that the booloader is an important piece
of the puzzle, in this case I prefer to take the conservative path.

> Squeeze maintainers, Did I not see something I should have? Is GRUB2 in
> good enough condition that it can be used on production servers? Is the
> next CD going to have GRUB legacy available?

When I installed Squeeze, back five months ago when still tagged as
"testing", it was indeed available, I mean, the installer asked what to
put, GRUB legacy or GRUB2. Are you sure that now Squeeze installer has
removed that option? :-?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Camaleón 06-24-2011 03:18 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:08:34 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On Thu 23 Jun 2011 at 15:42:43 +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>
>> Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my
>> preferred option for wheezy... is there any chance to get GRUB legacy
>> at install time or that option won't be present anymore?
>
> Doesn't look like it.

No? Then why removing it from the installer? :-?

> But grub-legacy awaits you after the install.

Oh, sure.

But I like Debian precisely for those things that make it unique, like
giving users as many options as it can, not removing them without a
strong and meditated reason ;-)

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Camaleón 06-24-2011 03:30 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:42:40 -0400, Tom H wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday I had to perform an new install with the latest wheezy
>> snapshot (weekly CD#1 image).
>>
>> 1/ I could only get grub-pc, no more questions about installing GRUB
>> legacy or select the new version... is that right? I thought GRUB2 is
>> still an ongoing project, quite stable but still getting many
>> enhancements.
>>
>> Point 1/ worries me a bit, because GRUB2 was not going to be my
>> preferred option for wheezy... is there any chance to get GRUB legacy
>> at install time or that option won't be present anymore?
>
> I was surprised to see grub1 in Squeeze. It's still in the Wheezy and
> Sid repos though, even if it isn't available through d-i.

That was also my feeling when I first installed squeeze, in the time it
was still "testing". For that reason I was suprised to get GRUB 2 in
Wheezy installer, without further questions or options to select GRUB
legacy.

> Would grub2 really have been made the default in Squeeze if it weren't
> stable?

Well, sometimes devels are very exited with new additions and want to see
them as the default options, which I think is not as bad as it seems
provided there is also a chance to select another options.

> For the record, I prefer grub1's config to grub2's but grub2's been
> almost problem-free for me for a long time. Almost: one small problem
> (Karmic's grub2 couldn't recognize Fedora's initrd when creating a
> Fedora menu entry) and one big problem (until last summer, grub2
> couldn't boot from mdraid metadata 1.x).

I also find GRUB legacy more suitable to my needs. I don't remember any
problem with it, I mean, nothing that could not be solved by manually
editing the "menu.lst" or by launching GRUB's legacy console from the
menu. It had a small set of options and files to tweak (compared to GRUB
2) but I see that as a plus rather than a weakness because that makes it
less vulnerable to flaws. Of course, I understand there are people with
new needs that find GRUB 2 perfect for them, so having both options
available in the installer is, IMO, a perfect deal :-)

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Brian 06-24-2011 04:37 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 15:18:08 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> No? Then why removing it from the installer? :-?

There is no further upstream development of it. Debian will not maintain
it. It's dead. So GRUB2 became a release goal for Squeeze.

> Oh, sure.
>
> But I like Debian precisely for those things that make it unique, like
> giving users as many options as it can, not removing them without a
> strong and meditated reason ;-)

Upgrading from Lenny to Squeeze gives the choice of keeping an existing
GRUB or converting to GRUB2. With a new install it's GRUB2 only. But the
choice to go for GRUB legacy exists afterwards, which seems reasonable
to me.


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Ralf Mardorf 06-24-2011 05:20 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
> I mean, nothing that could not be solved by manually
> editing the "menu.lst"
>
I'm editing grub.cfg manually ;). Doing that GRUB2 is ok too, at least
for my needs. But indeed, e.g. sub-menus aren't supported by all
versions of GRUB2. If you need to be on the safe side, avoid the usage
of GRUB2. For my machine at home I can use GRUB2 and laugh a lot, since
I've got some time, because I'm jobless at the moment ;).

IMO GRUB1 always is the better choice, but GRUB2 can be very
entertaining :D.

Trollish regards,

Ralf


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Glenn English 06-24-2011 05:33 PM

No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?
 
On Jun 24, 2011, at 9:14 AM, Camaleón wrote:

> When I installed Squeeze, back five months ago when still tagged as
> "testing", it was indeed available, I mean, the installer asked what to
> put, GRUB legacy or GRUB2. Are you sure that now Squeeze installer has
> removed that option? :-?

Yup; I am now. I thought I might have missed something until I read comments from others on this list.

GRUB's a bootloader, ferkrisake, not Photoshop. I'll certainly admit that lots of cool stuff (RAID, mdadm, etc.) have come along since it was first designed. And that there's likely been some hacking of the original code to deal with that.

But I'd have hoped that rewriting GRUB meant a smaller, simpler (aka more reliable) program with a simpler configuration, not bigger and more complex, and maybe it could try to boot from several devices/partitions, in case RAID broke -- I can live without the pretty background pictures(s)...

--
Glenn English



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