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Old 06-24-2011, 05:47 PM
Camaleón
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:37:04 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 15:18:08 +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>
>> No? Then why removing it from the installer? :-?
>
> There is no further upstream development of it. Debian will not maintain
> it. It's dead. So GRUB2 became a release goal for Squeeze.

That would be fine... if there was such a public statement. This is the
first time I read that a legacy piece of software is out just because of
its age because it still receives bugfixes.

>> But I like Debian precisely for those things that make it unique, like
>> giving users as many options as it can, not removing them without a
>> strong and meditated reason ;-)
>
> Upgrading from Lenny to Squeeze gives the choice of keeping an existing
> GRUB or converting to GRUB2. With a new install it's GRUB2 only. But the
> choice to go for GRUB legacy exists afterwards, which seems reasonable
> to me.

It can fit some use cases but I'm afraid it leaves others out...

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-24-2011, 05:49 PM
Lisi
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Friday 24 June 2011 18:33:02 Glenn English wrote:
> I can live without the pretty background pictures(s)...

I _prefer_ to live without the background pictures. ;-)

Lisi


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Old 06-24-2011, 05:57 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

"I can live without the pretty background pictures(s)"

Hehe . +1, resp. I won't call those pictures pretty .

GRUB2 is a PITA, but as mentioned before, very entertaining, as long as
you are jobless and has got more time as usual .

While menu.lst has some lines, grub.cfg has tons of lines and using
GRUB2 with comfort, we need to edit grub.cfg manually ... and well,
always backup grub.cfg, since several packages will re-edit it.

Wow, I'm not the only troll .

Regards,

Ralf


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Old 06-24-2011, 06:12 PM
Camaleón
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:49:27 +0100, Lisi wrote:

> On Friday 24 June 2011 18:33:02 Glenn English wrote:
>> I can live without the pretty background pictures(s)...
>
> I _prefer_ to live without the background pictures. ;-)

He, he... the first thing I did as soon as I saw my poor GRUB's menu with
all that shiny colors was returning to the quiet and peaceful blue and
black schema.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-24-2011, 06:18 PM
Brian
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 17:47:44 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> That would be fine... if there was such a public statement. This is the
> first time I read that a legacy piece of software is out just because of
> its age because it still receives bugfixes.

Will this do (The GRUB Development section)?

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/

> It can fit some use cases but I'm afraid it leaves others out...

The technical considerations involved in constructing the installer
outweigh any perceived inconvenience to a user is one way of looking at
it. There are far more winners than losers.


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Old 06-24-2011, 07:13 PM
Camaleón
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 19:18:27 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 17:47:44 +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>
>> That would be fine... if there was such a public statement. This is the
>> first time I read that a legacy piece of software is out just because
>> of its age because it still receives bugfixes.
>
> Will this do (The GRUB Development section)?
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/

Nope, that's a GRUB's statement not a Debian's one :-)

There are many packages that are not being "actively" developed but still
maintained upstream (how about "Unison"?) like GRUB legacy is.

Anyway...

"GRUB Legacy is no longer being developed. For the differences between
GRUB Legacy and GRUB, see the current status on the wiki and the Grub
Legacy Documentation."

http://grub.enbug.org/CurrentStatus

sm01@stt008:~$ LANG=POSIX; wget http://grub.enbug.org/CurrentStatus
--2011-06-24 21:08:55-- http://grub.enbug.org/CurrentStatus
Resolving grub.enbug.org... 211.14.6.124
Connecting to grub.enbug.org|211.14.6.124|:80... failed: Connection
refused.

ż?

>> It can fit some use cases but I'm afraid it leaves others out...
>
> The technical considerations involved in constructing the installer
> outweigh any perceived inconvenience to a user is one way of looking at
> it. There are far more winners than losers.

Nice speech, but I prefer to see the real numbers that support
it >:-)

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-24-2011, 07:35 PM
Sven Joachim
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On 2011-06-24 19:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> While menu.lst has some lines, grub.cfg has tons of lines and using
> GRUB2 with comfort, we need to edit grub.cfg manually ...

Having switched to grub2 recently, I do that as well. But I suspect
most people will be content with the simpler configuration options
offered by editing /etc/default/grub and running update-grub.

Oh, and my grub.cfg is not longer than menu.lst. The shell scripts in
/etc/grub.d put quite a lot of stuff into the file that isn't really
necessary.

> and well, always backup grub.cfg

If you want to edit it manually, that's always a good idea. Even
better, put it under version control.

> since several packages will re-edit it.

That's easy to avoid, just put the editing script aside:

# dpkg-divert --add --rename /usr/sbin/update-grub
# ln -s /bin/true /usr/sbin/update-grub

> Wow, I'm not the only troll .

I have shied away from grub2 for many years due to its perceived
complexity, but if you don't use all the bells and whistles it is not
really any more complicated than grub1. The biggest problem is still
the meager documentation, but grub1's manual was not stellar either.

Sven


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Old 06-24-2011, 08:20 PM
Brian
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 19:13:27 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> Nope, that's a GRUB's statement not a Debian's one :-)

You'll have to make do with this:

http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/GRUB2asDefault

> There are many packages that are not being "actively" developed but still
> maintained upstream (how about "Unison"?) like GRUB legacy is.

GRUB legacy is hardly being maintained upstream. It's on life-support.

> Only bugfixes will be made so that GRUB Legacy can stil be used for older
> systems.

> Nice speech,

Thank you - but it was of a 'get in touch with pragmatism' effort.

> but I prefer to see the real numbers that support
> it >:-)

You give me the number of Debian users and I'll make a stab at it.


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Old 06-24-2011, 08:51 PM
Brian
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 21:35:16 +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:

> Having switched to grub2 recently, I do that as well. But I suspect
> most people will be content with the simpler configuration options
> offered by editing /etc/default/grub and running update-grub.

That's me! Although I do have a little change made to debian_theme.

Why is it some people dislike GRUB2? My experience isn't great but it
boots Debian kernels reliably on my machines. Nothing complicated I
admit, and I'm not overfussed about configuring it to display fancy
menus. What basic changes to grub.cfg cannot be made from the files in
/etc?

As an aside: Is having 'DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE' and making the file
read-only really an invitation to do the opposite?


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Old 06-24-2011, 10:11 PM
Freeman
 
Default No more GRUB legacy at install time since wheezy?

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 09:51:14PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 24 Jun 2011 at 21:35:16 +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
>
> > Having switched to grub2 recently, I do that as well. But I suspect
> > most people will be content with the simpler configuration options
> > offered by editing /etc/default/grub and running update-grub.
>
> That's me! Although I do have a little change made to debian_theme.
>
> Why is it some people dislike GRUB2? My experience isn't great but it
> boots Debian kernels reliably on my machines. Nothing complicated I

Grub2 didn't like my setup during upgrade.

My menu.lst of Grub 0.97 included numerous different rc levels to select
from. Just a way of selecting between different interfaces while booting.

So the following blocks in the automagic section of menu.lst resulted in a 4
item menu for each kernel, one item booting into GDM, the next starting
xinit with Openbox--booting from rc5.d, rc4.d rc3.d and rc2.d respectively.

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
## altoptions=(single-user) single
# altoptions=(GDM) 5 vga=791 quiet
# altoptions=(Openbox) 4 vga=791 quiet
# altoptions=(Screen) 3 vga=791
# altoptions=(single-user mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
## howmany=7
# howmany=all

When grub2 setup hit that, it gave me some garbled menu item that failed,
followed by its basic boot items for console and maintenance.

So now I have an /etc/grub.d/09_custom that renders a menu above Grub2's
default menu. I manually edit it for kernel upgrades with "find and
replace" of kernel numbers. I don't like having a fractured, two part menu
that doesn't completely upgrade automagically. But it works:

#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# mine

menuentry "> -- // Deneb HD II -- Debian GNU/Linux \ -- <" {
set root=(hd1,mdos3)
}

menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.37-1-amd64 (GDM)' --class debian
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd1,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set
ab51dc6e-10ca-4c02-b9dd-d6a4d393cb9e
echo 'Loading Linux 2.6.37-1-amd64 ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.37-1-amd64
root=UUID=ab51dc6e-10ca-4c02-b9dd-d6a4d393cb9e ro irqpoll 5 quiet
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.37-1-amd64
}
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.37-1-amd64 (OpenBox)' --class debian
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd1,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set
ab51dc6e-10ca-4c02-b9dd-d6a4d393cb9e
echo 'Loading Linux 2.6.37-1-amd64 ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.37-1-amd64
root=UUID=ab51dc6e-10ca-4c02-b9dd-d6a4d393cb9e ro irqpoll 4
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.37-1-amd64
}
menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.37-1-amd64 (Screen)' --class debian
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd1,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set
ab51dc6e-10ca-4c02-b9dd-d6a4d393cb9e
echo 'Loading Linux 2.6.37-1-amd64 ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.37-1-amd64
root=UUID=ab51dc6e-10ca-4c02-b9dd-d6a4d393cb9e ro irqpoll 3
echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.37-1-amd64

. . .


> admit, and I'm not overfussed about configuring it to display fancy
> menus. What basic changes to grub.cfg cannot be made from the files in
> /etc?
>
> As an aside: Is having 'DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE' and making the file
> read-only really an invitation to do the opposite?
>

Without any other information, I'd have to edit the file to see what
happens. =:0

--
Regards,
Freeman

"Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the
answer." --Somebody


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