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-   -   posting debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1198 (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-user/543201-posting-debian-user-digest-digest-v2011-1198-a.html)

Ralf Mardorf 06-23-2011 07:02 AM

posting debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1198
 
On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:45 +0000,
debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org wrote:
> On 23/06/11 00:01, lee wrote:
> > Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> On 22/06/11 21:53, Camaleón wrote:
> >>>> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
> >>>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
> wrote:
> >>>>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than
> replying.
> >>
> >> And I am in absolute agreement with you!
> >
> > Hm, I wonder why anyone is going to the lengths of replying
> to digest
> > messages rather than just subscribing to the list ...
>
> You could just ask the person.... (look for the "Digest"
> subject line)
> I've had to replied to posts from digests - I edit out the
> digest cruft
> rather than perpetuate an abomination.
>
> For convoluted reasons I subscribe to a digest from another
> list - I
> edit my responses carefully though. While some will argue that
> ruins the
> header information - the purpose is to make indexing for
> searching, and
> threading by subject line, work. Not to provide a forensics
> trail for
> the anally retentive.

It's easier for GNU mailman digest. There you get the subject line and
you easily can copy and paste it, so at least I won't forget to do it,
while I sometimes forget to do it for the Debian list.
Another issue for the Debian digest is, that even HTML formatted spam
isn't eliminated, hence scrolling through the Digest is annoying. People
writing to the list should do it by plain text only, so it would be easy
to eliminate HTML based spam.

IMO Digest should be for replies too, not only to lurk the list. You can
read the archive if you only would like to lurk.

-- Ralf


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Ralf Mardorf 06-23-2011 07:15 AM

posting debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1198
 
On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 09:02 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:45 +0000,
> debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org wrote:
> > On 23/06/11 00:01, lee wrote:
> > > Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > >> On 22/06/11 21:53, Camaleón wrote:
> > >>>> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
> > >>>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than
> > replying.
> > >>
> > >> And I am in absolute agreement with you!
> > >
> > > Hm, I wonder why anyone is going to the lengths of replying
> > to digest
> > > messages rather than just subscribing to the list ...
> >
> > You could just ask the person.... (look for the "Digest"
> > subject line)
> > I've had to replied to posts from digests - I edit out the
> > digest cruft
> > rather than perpetuate an abomination.
> >
> > For convoluted reasons I subscribe to a digest from another
> > list - I
> > edit my responses carefully though. While some will argue that
> > ruins the
> > header information - the purpose is to make indexing for
> > searching, and
> > threading by subject line, work. Not to provide a forensics
> > trail for
> > the anally retentive.
>
> It's easier for GNU mailman digest. There you get the subject line and
> you easily can copy and paste it, so at least I won't forget to do it,
> while I sometimes forget to do it for the Debian list.
> Another issue for the Debian digest is, that even HTML formatted spam
> isn't eliminated, hence scrolling through the Digest is annoying. People
> writing to the list should do it by plain text only, so it would be easy
> to eliminate HTML based spam.
>
> IMO Digest should be for replies too, not only to lurk the list. You can
> read the archive if you only would like to lurk.
>
> -- Ralf

An example for GNU mailman digest a reply *with marked text* keeps the
subject:


Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:27:19 +0200
> From: Ralf Mardorf
> Subject: Re: [LAU] Text-based sound visualisation?


But for Debian digest a "reply" *with marked text* causes:


On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:36:15 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:


I mark the text before I push the reply button, to select the quote.


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Scott Ferguson 06-23-2011 07:39 AM

posting debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1198
 
On 23/06/11 17:02, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:45 +0000,
> debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org wrote:
>> On 23/06/11 00:01, lee wrote:
>> > Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> writes:
>> >
>> >> On 22/06/11 21:53, Camaleón wrote:
>> >>>> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
>> >>>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than
>> replying.
>> >>
>> >> And I am in absolute agreement with you!
>> >
>> > Hm, I wonder why anyone is going to the lengths of replying
>> to digest
>> > messages rather than just subscribing to the list ...
>>
>> You could just ask the person.... (look for the "Digest"
>> subject line)
>> I've had to replied to posts from digests - I edit out the
>> digest cruft
>> rather than perpetuate an abomination.
>>
>> For convoluted reasons I subscribe to a digest from another
>> list - I
>> edit my responses carefully though. While some will argue that
>> ruins the
>> header information - the purpose is to make indexing for
>> searching, and
>> threading by subject line, work. Not to provide a forensics
>> trail for
>> the anally retentive.
>
> It's easier for GNU mailman digest. There you get the subject line and
> you easily can copy and paste it, so at least I won't forget to do it,
> while I sometimes forget to do it for the Debian list.
> Another issue for the Debian digest is, that even HTML formatted spam
> isn't eliminated, hence scrolling through the Digest is annoying. People
> writing to the list should do it by plain text only, so it would be easy
> to eliminate HTML based spam.
>
> IMO Digest should be for replies too, not only to lurk the list. You can
> read the archive if you only would like to lurk.
>
> -- Ralf
>
>

Is all that ^ annoying?
To me it looks like someone printed out a post, put it through a washing
machine, then had it typed out by a drunk on a popo-stick! ;-p

Not only is it reformatted, re-wrapped, and re-indented - the Subject
has been appended to, breaking the thread.
Maybe it works for you in Evolution Ralf - but for me in Icedove you've
just made a(nother) complelling argument for NOT replying to Digest
messages.

While in your opinion ("IMO") "it should be for replies too" - the fact
that it *doesn't work* should be a good reason not to do so. My 2c.

Both HTML and spam being sent to list is a filtering issue - nothing to
do with the Digest version (red herring).

Also. How someone can forget to copy the Subject line - when, if
replying to normal (not Digest) messages - it's not necessary.

Cheers


--
And I'll tell you something, too, that's starting to annoy me about
UFOs: the fact that they cross galaxies or universes to visit us, and
always end up in places like … Fyffe f#@!ing Alabama.
Maybe these aren't super-intelligent beings, you know what I mean?
~ Bill Hicks


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Andrew McGlashan 06-25-2011 10:46 AM

posting debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1198
 
Hi,

We have at least 4 threads here now.....

Looks like the digest version gives enough info. to do the replies
properly for each post -- one way or another.


Mucking around with headers is not for everyone, and isn't possible to
be done with digest automatically with all mailers either. It is
enlightening to read that some mailers can handle this properly, but I
still won't go down the track of digest ever again.


I still think the best way to reply, if you get digest and cannot reply
"properly" with the correct headers, is to use the online archive to reply.


Someone also mentioned that if they get too many mail messages, then
they have an ISP problem .... it is not likely the reason, message
count, it is more likely the volume of the mailbox -- ie being too full
of data [that is, the sum of all bytes of email in total, not the count
of emails], particularly large email attachments, but that is a whole
other world of discussion.


I've used digest previously, but not for a long time and not on Debian
lists. Most email clients or even mail delivery options (.forward for
example) have options to filter mail to various folders. This lessens
the burden of overpowering the content of your inbox with loads of list
emails and it places emails neatly into relevant folders for easier
handling -- and it is much, much easier to work with than digest email.


Threading with proper header records is the only way to go; grouping
entirely on subject is a very poor alternative ... it works, to a point,
but it is very, very messy [as I said, we have at least 4 threads
(probably more) on this single *hot* topic right now]. Why not use the
excellent feature of proper threading via "hidden" header records? I
can't see how any other alternative could be better under _any_
circumstance, well almost -- there are always swings and roundabouts ;-)


--
Kind Regards
AndrewM

Andrew McGlashan
Broadband Solutions now including VoIP


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