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Old 06-22-2011, 01:49 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
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On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>
>> On Seg, 20 Jun 2011, wrote:
>>> [To see how it works, I've tried to include all the References in the
>>> header in this message. If Chuck or Lee complains I'll know there's an
>>> error. ]
>>
>> This message broke the thread. It has not References or In-Reply-To
>> headers.
>>
>> As someone said, your MUA should do that, not you. If it doesn't,
>> consider another MUA.
>
> Don't blame the mailer. This is the first e-mail I see unthreaded coming
> from Peter. Maybe he tweaked something and it was not working as expected.
>
>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
>
> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than replying.
>
> Greetings,
>

It's not hard to reply to a digest - it's just requires some thought and
a little editing.
It's certainly no excuse to clutter the list with useless subject and
irrelevant content.
(not a lecture to you Camaleón)

In Iceweasel:-
Select the entire post being replied to
Click on reply to list
Copy the post title into the subject line of the reply
If the it's not already prefaced with "Re: " make it so
Edit the date, posters email and the formatting information.

It's hard to follow lazy replies to digest posts. If the person wishing
to post finds that "too hard" they've no right to expect others to carry
the weight.

I did use a script and Tonequilla to automatically re-edit replies to
digest posts (another list) - but the complexities of dealing with
bastardised subject lines by people forking threads exceeded the ten
minutes I'm prepared to spend on a script.

Cheers

--
A: Yes.
>Q: Are you sure?
>>A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>>Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?


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Old 06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Threading

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:49:05 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:

> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

(...)

>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
>>
>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than replying.
>>
>>
>>
> It's not hard to reply to a digest - it's just requires some thought and
> a little editing.
> It's certainly no excuse to clutter the list with useless subject and
> irrelevant content.
> (not a lecture to you Camaleón)

:-)

But if digest e-mails do not contain every e-mail (as mime attachment),
it turns hard to follow and reply. Yes, you can go to the mailing archive
and use the buttons in there but that's breaks things a lot.

> In Iceweasel:-
> Select the entire post being replied to Click on reply to list
> Copy the post title into the subject line of the reply If the it's not
> already prefaced with "Re: " make it so Edit the date, posters email and
> the formatting information.
>
> It's hard to follow lazy replies to digest posts. If the person wishing
> to post finds that "too hard" they've no right to expect others to carry
> the weight.

Yes, I understand your POV (and I also expressed my concerns with that)
but I thought that digest e-mails contained more than a simple link to
the referenced thread/post. If they don't, I still keep the idea that
they're more focused to reading than replying.

> I did use a script and Tonequilla to automatically re-edit replies to
> digest posts (another list) - but the complexities of dealing with
> bastardised subject lines by people forking threads exceeded the ten
> minutes I'm prepared to spend on a script.

Yep, and is not only about unthreaded messages (or changed subjects) but
replying to several of them in just one post. That makes conversations
very hard to follow by others mailing list users.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Threading

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:49:05 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:

> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

(...)

>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
>>
>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than replying.
>>
>>
>>
> It's not hard to reply to a digest - it's just requires some thought and
> a little editing.
> It's certainly no excuse to clutter the list with useless subject and
> irrelevant content.
> (not a lecture to you Camaleón)

:-)

But if digest e-mails do not contain every e-mail (as mime attachment),
it turns hard to follow and reply. Yes, you can go to the mailing archive
and use the buttons in there but that's breaks things a lot.

> In Iceweasel:-
> Select the entire post being replied to Click on reply to list
> Copy the post title into the subject line of the reply If the it's not
> already prefaced with "Re: " make it so Edit the date, posters email and
> the formatting information.
>
> It's hard to follow lazy replies to digest posts. If the person wishing
> to post finds that "too hard" they've no right to expect others to carry
> the weight.

Yes, I understand your POV (and I also expressed my concerns with that)
but I thought that digest e-mails contained more than a simple link to
the referenced thread/post. If they don't, I still keep the idea that
they're more focused to reading than replying.

> I did use a script and Tonequilla to automatically re-edit replies to
> digest posts (another list) - but the complexities of dealing with
> bastardised subject lines by people forking threads exceeded the ten
> minutes I'm prepared to spend on a script.

Yep, and is not only about unthreaded messages (or changed subjects) but
replying to several of them in just one post. That makes conversations
very hard to follow by others mailing list users.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Threading

On 22/06/11 21:53, Camaleón wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:49:05 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
>>>
>>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than replying.

And I am in absolute agreement with you!

Perhaps if I said what I meant it'd be less confusing ;-p

If someone feels the need to subscribe to the "digest" version - which
is not one "bit" smaller than all the individual messages - it's no
excuse to send badly formatted replies full of irrelevant material with
useless subject lines - to the list! (how's that?).

<snipped>
>
> Greetings,
>

But then - I also believe if someone top posts there *is* something
wrong. Likewise posting in HTML. Or posting to the list because they are
unable to do something, but then insisting on rudely declaring how
something must be done (and still expecting respect).

Cheers

--
A: Yes.
>Q: Are you sure?
>>A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>>Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?


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Old 06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Threading

On 22/06/11 21:53, Camaleón wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:49:05 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>> On 21/06/11 23:29, Camaleón wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:01 -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>>>> But at least you did not reply to a digest.
>>>
>>> Sure. I'd say digests are for reading more than replying.

And I am in absolute agreement with you!

Perhaps if I said what I meant it'd be less confusing ;-p

If someone feels the need to subscribe to the "digest" version - which
is not one "bit" smaller than all the individual messages - it's no
excuse to send badly formatted replies full of irrelevant material with
useless subject lines - to the list! (how's that?).

<snipped>
>
> Greetings,
>

But then - I also believe if someone top posts there *is* something
wrong. Likewise posting in HTML. Or posting to the list because they are
unable to do something, but then insisting on rudely declaring how
something must be done (and still expecting respect).

Cheers

--
A: Yes.
>Q: Are you sure?
>>A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>>Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?


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Old 06-22-2011, 12:13 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default Threading

On Ter, 21 Jun 2011, wrote:

So if they preceed the To: field, they are omitted.
This time they are between To: and Subject:.


You'd have to read the RFCs to see if they say anything about that. I
don't recall any requirement of header order (except for Received
headers), but I've never read the RFCs. Might be some particular
behaviour of some program.



Understood. I'm trying to simulate it humanly before attacking
the code.


If you intend on fixing it, it'd be nice to remove the number after Re
(such as Re (2), Re (3), etc.). It's unusual, and confuses most other
programs, which then add their own Re:, creating ugly things such as
"Re: Re (2)".


This one was threaded properly, by the way.



--
You've been leading a dog's life. Stay off the furniture.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br


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Old 06-22-2011, 12:13 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default Threading

On Ter, 21 Jun 2011, wrote:

So if they preceed the To: field, they are omitted.
This time they are between To: and Subject:.


You'd have to read the RFCs to see if they say anything about that. I
don't recall any requirement of header order (except for Received
headers), but I've never read the RFCs. Might be some particular
behaviour of some program.



Understood. I'm trying to simulate it humanly before attacking
the code.


If you intend on fixing it, it'd be nice to remove the number after Re
(such as Re (2), Re (3), etc.). It's unusual, and confuses most other
programs, which then add their own Re:, creating ugly things such as
"Re: Re (2)".


This one was threaded properly, by the way.



--
You've been leading a dog's life. Stay off the furniture.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br


--
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:16 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default Threading

On Ter, 21 Jun 2011, Scott Ferguson wrote:

It's not hard to reply to a digest - it's just requires some thought and
a little editing.
It's certainly no excuse to clutter the list with useless subject and
irrelevant content.
(not a lecture to you Camaleón)

In Iceweasel:-
Select the entire post being replied to
Click on reply to list
Copy the post title into the subject line of the reply
If the it's not already prefaced with "Re: " make it so
Edit the date, posters email and the formatting information.


That still has one disadvantage over replying to individual emails: no
References/In-Reply-To header, so MUAs that do The Right Thingâ„¢ will
not thread the mails properly. (But those that thread on the subject
will do so, though they cannot know to which specific message in the
thread the reply belongs).


That said, there are MUAs (especially web mail interfaces) that also
do not set threading headers.



--
You will lose an important tape file.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br


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Old 06-22-2011, 12:16 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default Threading

On Ter, 21 Jun 2011, Scott Ferguson wrote:

It's not hard to reply to a digest - it's just requires some thought and
a little editing.
It's certainly no excuse to clutter the list with useless subject and
irrelevant content.
(not a lecture to you Camaleón)

In Iceweasel:-
Select the entire post being replied to
Click on reply to list
Copy the post title into the subject line of the reply
If the it's not already prefaced with "Re: " make it so
Edit the date, posters email and the formatting information.


That still has one disadvantage over replying to individual emails: no
References/In-Reply-To header, so MUAs that do The Right Thingâ„¢ will
not thread the mails properly. (But those that thread on the subject
will do so, though they cannot know to which specific message in the
thread the reply belongs).


That said, there are MUAs (especially web mail interfaces) that also
do not set threading headers.



--
You will lose an important tape file.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br


--
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Celejar
 
Default Threading

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:04:24 +1000
Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> If someone feels the need to subscribe to the "digest" version - which
> is not one "bit" smaller than all the individual messages - it's no

It's not? Aren't many of the many headers not repeated per each digest
element?

Celejar
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