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Old 06-18-2011, 09:46 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Is there any valid reason to add a script that only cause a PITA? debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1172

> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: darkestkhan <darkestkhan@gmail.com>
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: Is there any valid reason to add an idiotic script
> > to /etc/init.d by an default Debian install that only cause a PITA?
> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:55:58 +0000
> >
> > Did you know about the big kernel power regression?
> > My system (laptop) is always under 100% load no matter what the
> > frequency I'm on (BOINC).
> >
> > Some stats (kernel 2.6.39.2)
> > 2.17GHz -> >103°C (luckily BIOS is coming to rescue)
> > 1.67GHz -> ~94°C
> > 1.33GHz -> ~83°C
> > 1.00GHz -> ~74°C
> >
> > Are you still going to say that frequency doesn't change heat that much?

No, that's why I ask. I don't know any computer that gets that hot, OTOH
I don't know that much computers.

> > Having to compile new kernel
> > just to change
> > CPU governor is IMHO Very Bad Idea™.

Full ACK. The default for the regular Debian kernel should be ondemand
and if somebody wishes to have another scaling, than the script should
be installed by this person. Audio folks will use kernels with
performance. So nobody will have issues. Now inexperienced people get
issues, when using multimedia software, as tools for production. Of
course using the computer as a toy or as a tool for multimedia home
entertainment might cause no issues.

People can't read all manuals, when they start using Linux for
multimedia production. That's impossible.

I would welcome, if more people would use Linux instead of Microsoft and
Apple, at least for audio productions. I don't think it's possible to
use Linux for professional video productions at the moment. At least
some coders claim that it will take a long time until this will be
possible.

Anyway, using audio is possible, but with many, many problems and those
problems should be eliminated. The more audio users, the more vendors of
professional audio cards would take care about Linux.

Regards,

Ralf


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Old 06-18-2011, 10:20 AM
darkestkhan
 
Default Is there any valid reason to add a script that only cause a PITA? debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1172

2011/6/18 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
>
>> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> > From: darkestkhan <darkestkhan@gmail.com>
>> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> > Subject: Re: Is there any valid reason to add an idiotic script
>> > to /etc/init.d by an default Debian install that only cause a PITA?
>> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:55:58 +0000
>> >
>> > Did you know about the big kernel power regression?
>> > My system (laptop) is always under 100% load no matter what the
>> > frequency I'm on (BOINC).
>> >
>> > Some stats (kernel 2.6.39.2)
>> > 2.17GHz -> *>103C (luckily BIOS is coming to rescue)
>> > 1.67GHz -> ~94C
>> > 1.33GHz -> ~83C
>> > 1.00GHz -> ~74C
>> >
>> > Are you still going to say that frequency doesn't change heat that much?
>
> No, that's why I ask. I don't know any computer that gets that hot, OTOH
> I don't know that much computers.

Laptops can get really hot rather fast, especially when you put them
under constant high load.

[snip]
>
> Regards,
>
> Ralf
>

Somehow I have gut feeling that for audio you don't need performance -
it is just that you need stable frequency.

darkestkhan
------------------------------------------
Feel free to CC me.
jid: darkestkhan@gmail.com
May The Source be with You.


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Old 06-18-2011, 11:17 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Is there any valid reason to add a script that only cause a PITA? debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1172

On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 10:20 +0000, darkestkhan wrote:
> 2011/6/18 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
> >
> >> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> >> > From: darkestkhan <darkestkhan@gmail.com>
> >> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >> > Subject: Re: Is there any valid reason to add an idiotic script
> >> > to /etc/init.d by an default Debian install that only cause a PITA?
> >> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:55:58 +0000
> >> >
> >> > Did you know about the big kernel power regression?
> >> > My system (laptop) is always under 100% load no matter what the
> >> > frequency I'm on (BOINC).
> >> >
> >> > Some stats (kernel 2.6.39.2)
> >> > 2.17GHz -> >103C (luckily BIOS is coming to rescue)
> >> > 1.67GHz -> ~94C
> >> > 1.33GHz -> ~83C
> >> > 1.00GHz -> ~74C
> >> >
> >> > Are you still going to say that frequency doesn't change heat that much?
> >
> > No, that's why I ask. I don't know any computer that gets that hot, OTOH
> > I don't know that much computers.
>
> Laptops can get really hot rather fast, especially when you put them
> under constant high load.
>
> [snip]
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ralf
> >
>
> Somehow I have gut feeling that for audio you don't need performance -
> it is just that you need stable frequency.

I didn't thought about this, but I guess you're right. At least a very
old computer I had was much slower than my computer is today, even with
scaling set to ondemand.


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Old 06-18-2011, 03:21 PM
Camalen
 
Default Is there any valid reason to add a script that only cause a PITA? debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1172

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:46:18 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

(...)

> I would welcome, if more people would use Linux instead of Microsoft and
> Apple, at least for audio productions. I don't think it's possible to
> use Linux for professional video productions at the moment. At least
> some coders claim that it will take a long time until this will be
> possible.

That's an unbelievable claim.

Most of the render farms and multimedia clusters are using linux not only
to perform the intensive tasks but also in their workstations.

> Anyway, using audio is possible, but with many, many problems and those
> problems should be eliminated.

And the problem you refer can be eliminated within seconds...

> The more audio users, the more vendors of professional audio cards
> would take care about Linux.

What I still don't get is your interest in making a default setting to
help only a limited set of users... Can you tell me why on earth a multi-
purpose linux distribution (like Debian is) should focus in a specific
area, like audio? You know, real-time kernels and tweaks for audio lovers
are the opposite of what a plain server needs ;-)

Greetings,

--
Camalen


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Old 06-19-2011, 03:41 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Is there any valid reason to add a script that only cause a PITA? debian-user-digest Digest V2011 #1172

On 19/06/11 01:21, Camalen wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:46:18 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>> I would welcome, if more people would use Linux instead of Microsoft and
>> Apple, at least for audio productions. I don't think it's possible to
>> use Linux for professional video productions at the moment. At least
>> some coders claim that it will take a long time until this will be
>> possible.
>
> That's an unbelievable claim.
>
> Most of the render farms and multimedia clusters are using linux not only
> to perform the intensive tasks but also in their workstations.

Tiny little companies like Industrial Light and Magic, Pixar, Disney,
Hanna Barbara, etc, etc....?

>
>> Anyway, using audio is possible, but with many, many problems and those
>> problems should be eliminated.
>
> And the problem you refer can be eliminated within seconds...
>
>> The more audio users, the more vendors of professional audio cards
>> would take care about Linux.
>
> What I still don't get is your interest in making a default setting to
> help only a limited set of users... Can you tell me why on earth a multi-
> purpose linux distribution (like Debian is) should focus in a specific
> area, like audio? You know, real-time kernels and tweaks for audio lovers
> are the opposite of what a plain server needs ;-)
>
> Greetings,
>

Cheers


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