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Old 06-11-2011, 10:43 AM
Lisi
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote:
> > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor,
> > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff.
> >
> > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??!
>
> I've got good eyes and don't have braille . But I'm a dyslexic.

You misunderstood my question. "You" in English, in addition to being the
second person plural and singular pronoun, is also the third person singular
indefinate pronoun equivalent to the French "on". You (second person
singular) said "I guess using braille, people have to read much more
irrelevant stuff" and I asked how on earth these putative people, using
braille to read things on the Internet, did so. I cannot see how anyone uses
braille on the Internet, so I asked you (second person singular) how such a
person would do so.

> > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all
> > use text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning
> > still holds good.
>
> Try Orca or so, you can't use it for all applications. Fortunately blind
> people can use Linux easier than other OS, because there's software with
> good config files, so they don't need the GUI .

Very sadly, this is not true. There is marvellous text to speech software
available, very expensively, for Windows. I have looked into Linux and have
not so far found anything to touch it. Mind you, testing is as you (second
person singular) say difficult, because I am not good at managing without
some sort of visual hint.

> On Linux audio users there are two blind users and they use Hydrogen by
> setting up this drum machine by it's config file. The GUI can't be used
> with Orca speech software.
[snip]
> > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you
> > can use braille to read things on the Internet.
>
> A misunderstanding, perhaps regarding to my broken English.

No, I fully understood you (second person singular). You (second person
singular) said that you (second person singular) are dyslexic. But _you_
(second person singular) misunderstood _me_. It is difficult for me to know
what I should avoid on an international list, and "one" as a pronoun
effectively died in the mid twentieth century, so complicated periphrasis can
be avoided only by using the pronoun "you" in the third person instead of
using "one", which it has replaced in the language.

And as you (second person singular) see here, attempts to clarify or rephrase
are necessarily very clumsy.

Lisi


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Old 06-11-2011, 11:13 AM
darkestkhan
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

2011/6/11 Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>:
> On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> [snip]
>> > That is not sarcasm incidentally. *I would genuinely like to know how you
>> > can use braille to read things on the Internet.
>>
>> A misunderstanding, perhaps regarding to my broken English.
>
> No, I fully understood you (second person singular). *You (second person
> singular) said that you (second person singular) are dyslexic. *But _you_
> (second person singular) misunderstood _me_. *It is difficult for me to know
> what I should avoid on an international list, and "one" as a pronoun
> effectively died in the mid twentieth century, so complicated periphrasis can
> be avoided only by using the pronoun "you" in the third person instead of
> using "one", which it has replaced in the language.
>
> And as you (second person singular) see here, attempts to clarify or rephrase
> are necessarily very clumsy.
>
> Lisi
>

Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century
- the revival of pronoun "one".
For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite
often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death
(though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of
Internet).

darkestkhan
------------------------------------------
Feel free to CC me.
jid: darkestkhan@gmail.com
May The Source be with You.


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Old 06-11-2011, 11:13 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 11:43 +0100, Lisi wrote:
> On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote:
> > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor,
> > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff.
> > >
> > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??!
> >
> > I've got good eyes and don't have braille . But I'm a dyslexic.
>
> You misunderstood my question. "You" in English, in addition to being the
> second person plural and singular pronoun, is also the third person singular
> indefinate pronoun equivalent to the French "on". You (second person
> singular) said "I guess using braille, people have to read much more
> irrelevant stuff" and I asked how on earth these putative people, using
> braille to read things on the Internet, did so. I cannot see how anyone uses
> braille on the Internet, so I asked you (second person singular) how such a
> person would do so.

Ok, I guess I understand now. I don't know, but perhaps it's possible by
using w3m. There are some sites made by blind people and those sides use
a different style, compared to usual web pages.

Please run

$ w3m http://www.webbie.org.uk/webbie.htm

This IMO is even more pleasant for people who are able to see . No
folderol. Btw. I didn't read it.

> > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all
> > > use text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning
> > > still holds good.
> >
> > Try Orca or so, you can't use it for all applications. Fortunately blind
> > people can use Linux easier than other OS, because there's software with
> > good config files, so they don't need the GUI .
>
> Very sadly, this is not true. There is marvellous text to speech software
> available, very expensively, for Windows. I have looked into Linux and have
> not so far found anything to touch it. Mind you, testing is as you (second
> person singular) say difficult, because I am not good at managing without
> some sort of visual hint.

I like pictures very much! I guess even for blind people a relief will
give more information than words sometimes can do.

Regarding to accessibility I might be thinking of audio only. I guess on
Windows and Mac it's harder for blind musicians, but I might be
mistaken.

FWIW even seeing and sane artists prefer engineers to handle the
computer equipment.

Herbie Hancock On Sesame Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5C4VF7xdcc

Computers are bad designed for intuitive people. This 68000 CPU computer
based synth is much better designed, regarding to the needs of musicians
than Windows, Mac and Linux desktops are.

Regards,

Ralf


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Old 06-11-2011, 03:42 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On 11/06/11 20:07, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote:
>> On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I
>>> guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff.
>>
>> I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??!
>

<snipped>

>
>> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can
>> use braille to read things on the Internet.
>
<snipped, sorry Ralf>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display


Literally interpreting your question
(I used to build machines for people with vision problems)

Cheers

--
Tuttle? His name's Buttle.
There must be some mistake.
Mistake? [Chuckles]
We don't make mistakes.


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Old 06-11-2011, 04:33 PM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On 11 Jun 2011, darkestkhan wrote:
>
> Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century
> - the revival of pronoun "one".
> For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite
> often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death
> (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of
> Internet).
>
> darkestkhan

I think the avoidance of 'one' is mainly an American usage. In British
English it is used quite frequently, In fact, there is a long-standing
joke about the tendency of members of the Royal Family, especially
Prince Charles, to say 'one' instead of 'I'.


--
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Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk - sample my ebooks at
http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/acampbell


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Old 06-11-2011, 04:53 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 01:42 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 11/06/11 20:07, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote:
> >> On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >>> I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I
> >>> guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff.
> >>
> >> I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??!
> >
>
> <snipped>
>
> >
> >> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can
> >> use braille to read things on the Internet.
> >
> <snipped, sorry Ralf>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display

The issue with braille seems to be, that the browser needs to be text
based, some minutes ago a blind man at Linux audio users list mentioned,
that he can't handle flash with his text based browsers, so I guess he's
using brltty daemon. This flash thingy was only for playing a song. IMO
all those java and flash stuff should be baned, if not really needed. I
like to watch youtube, a blind person surely won't watch videos, so it's
okay to use more than just HTML for this usage, but apart from that
nobody really needs all that folderol. Does anybody watch intro videos
on homepages? I always hope that the skip button does his job.


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Old 06-11-2011, 04:55 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On Sb, 11 iun 11, 11:13:50, darkestkhan wrote:
>
> Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century
> - the revival of pronoun "one".
> For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite
> often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death
> (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of
> Internet).

+1

Regards,
Andrei
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:10 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 17:33 +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 11 Jun 2011, darkestkhan wrote:
> >
> > Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century
> > - the revival of pronoun "one".
> > For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite
> > often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death
> > (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of
> > Internet).
> >
> > darkestkhan
>
> I think the avoidance of 'one' is mainly an American usage. In British
> English it is used quite frequently, In fact, there is a long-standing
> joke about the tendency of members of the Royal Family, especially
> Prince Charles, to say 'one' instead of 'I'.

In my case, my English simply is broken. 'One' was for 'somebody' not
for 'I'. Btw. I can't believe that it's possible to translate Hegel to
English, since it's disputed what his message is. His individual German
already needs translation into regular German. So somebody first has to
be sure what Hegel wants to say, before he will be able to translate
him. Very strange, resp. dubious, there are translations of Hegel:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hegel/
http://www.hegel.org/index.html

Anyway, German is a very strange language and as a German native speaker
with a large vocabulary and no gift for languages, my translations are
sometimes similar to http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

"Don't Panic" (The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

Ralf





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Old 06-11-2011, 05:38 PM
Philipp Überbacher
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

Excerpts from Lisi's message of 2011-06-11 12:43:23 +0200:
> On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote:
> > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor,
> > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff.
> > >
> > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??!
> >
> > I've got good eyes and don't have braille . But I'm a dyslexic.
>
> You misunderstood my question. "You" in English, in addition to being the
> second person plural and singular pronoun, is also the third person singular
> indefinate pronoun equivalent to the French "on". You (second person
> singular) said "I guess using braille, people have to read much more
> irrelevant stuff" and I asked how on earth these putative people, using
> braille to read things on the Internet, did so. I cannot see how anyone uses
> braille on the Internet, so I asked you (second person singular) how such a
> person would do so.

Reading web pages with a braille display is a matter of using a text
browser, there are a number of those available on Linux.

Regards,
Philipp


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Old 06-11-2011, 06:04 PM
consul tores
 
Default Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Subscription

2011/6/11 Anthony Campbell <ac@acampbell.org.uk>:
> On 11 Jun 2011, darkestkhan wrote:
>>
>> Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century
>> - the revival of pronoun "one".
>> For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite
>> often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death
>> (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of
>> Internet).
>>
>> darkestkhan
>
> I think the avoidance of 'one' is mainly an American usage. In British
> English it is used quite frequently, In fact, there is a long-standing
> joke about the tendency of members of the Royal Family, especially
> Prince Charles, to say 'one' instead of 'I'.
>
>
> --
> Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk

Anthony

You might mean USian, it seems that in Canada is usually used.


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