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Old 06-07-2011, 07:28 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Mice

On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote:
[snip]


I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice:

1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces



I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.


Disadvantages of ball mice:
1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
mice never get dirty.
2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
more surfaces.

--
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure
the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally
corrupt."
Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749


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Old 06-07-2011, 09:00 PM
Heddle Weaver
 
Default Mice

On 8 June 2011 05:28, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:

On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, CamaleĂłn wrote:

[snip]




I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice:



1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces






I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?) surface. Â*But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.



Disadvantages of ball mice:

1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Â*Yes, you can clean it, but laser

Â* mice never get dirty.

2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. Â*The laser works on

Â* more surfaces.

Balls also wear and cause a perfectly good mouse to become unusable.
Regards,

Weaver.
--

Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.
 
Old 06-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Mice

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:

> On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip]
>>
>> I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice:
>>
>> 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces
>>
>>
> I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
> surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.

And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other "hostile"
environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface
and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-)

> Disadvantages of ball mice:
> 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
> mice never get dirty.

Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never?

> 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
> more surfaces.

I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless
one.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-08-2011, 12:00 PM
"tv.debian@googlemail.com"
 
Default Mice

>08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón:
>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
>>> On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip]
>>>
>>> I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice:
>>>
>>> 1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces
>>>
>>>
>> I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
>> surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.
>
> And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other "hostile"
> environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface
> and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-)
I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway)
but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer
(or re-branded ?) technology ("darkfield") and works on mirror, glass,
all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself),
on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the
receiver is really tiny.
I used to be an "anti" cordless, because of battery consumption,
excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky
receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those
annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love "spaghetti-free" desktops.
>
>> Disadvantages of ball mice:
>> 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
>> mice never get dirty.
>
> Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never?
I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my
activities require precision (photo and video editing).

>
>> 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
>> more surfaces.
>
> I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless
> one.
>
> Greetings,
>
For my desktops I use exclusively "trackball/trackman" pointing devices,
my current is cordless, optical (the sensor "reads" the movements of the
ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to
work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work
for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a
really long time (over a year).

Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including
buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora).


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Old 06-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Mice

On 08/06/11 20:06, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:14PM +0000, Camale�n wrote:
> [cut]
>>
<snipped, sorry Camale�n>

> As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky.

Very

> Sun optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a
> specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can
> only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to
> an arbitrary surface as with modern mice).
>

I've used those mousepads - after a while the plastic coating wear
through and you discover they're toxic (nickel coated). We quickly
swapped them for gridded paper sticky taped to the desk instead of black
hands and a nasty metallic taste in your mouth. Not saying they'll kill
you, but if your zinc levels are low it could make you sick.

I've only recently moved to Optical mice because I used to think I had
more fine control with a wheel mouse. With the optical mice I use my
thumb, the little finger, and the heel of my hand on the desktop to help
limit the mouse movement - with a wheel mouse only the heel of my hand
used to touch the desk. The "grippiness/stickiness" of the ball used to
give better single pixel movement control for things like graphics.
Pushing down on an optical mouse does not allow you to restrict movement
the way pushing down on an optical mouse does, as the friction in an
optical mouse comes from my hand contacting the desk and the little pads
on the base of the mouse - as opposed to the friction generated by the
device that actually measures movement.

It matters little whether it's a ball, or optics for most desktop
applications - except graphics. Where the optical mouse truly excels is
when I want to use an external mouse with laptops - works fine on the
arm of a chair or my leg.

As for wireless mice - I believe the lag of the early models has been
reduced, and I don't see how the weight of something I slide, but never
lift, would bother me. I don't use one because I'm cheap. ;-p

Cheers

--
Tuttle? His name's Buttle.
There must be some mistake.
Mistake? [Chuckles]
We don't make mistakes.


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Old 06-08-2011, 12:22 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Mice

On 08/06/11 21:32, ďż˝ wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 11:06:16 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:14PM +0000, CamaleĂłn wrote: [cut]
>>>
<snipped>
>> As for not working on clear surfaces, consider yourself lucky. Sun
>> optical mice (e.g. http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html) require a
>> specific mousepad with a calibrated grid printed on them. The mouse can
>> only report its movement relative to this grid (rather than relative to
>> an arbitrary surface as with modern mice).
>
> He, he... from what century is that piece of hardware?

[straight face] Last century.

> Nineties?

I think, technically, the Nineties was a "decade" - it just seemed
longer ;-p

>
> Greetings,
>


Cheers

--
Tuttle? His name's Buttle.
There must be some mistake.
Mistake? [Chuckles]
We don't make mistakes.


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Old 06-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Mice

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:00:24 +0200, tv.debian@googlemail.com wrote:

>>08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón:
>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
>>> surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.
>>
>> And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other
>> "hostile" environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine
>> clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-)

> I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway)
> but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer
> (or re-branded ?) technology ("darkfield") and works on mirror, glass,
> all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself),
> on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the
> receiver is really tiny.
> I used to be an "anti" cordless, because of battery consumption,
> excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky
> receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those
> annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love "spaghetti-free"
> desktops.

Good. I'll have that in mind when I have to ditch my current rolling ball
mouse... foreseen at 2020 or so :-)

But nowadays the majority of laser based mice lose their eficiency on
transparent/reflective surfaces so let's wait the market evolves this
situation a bit and more manufacturers embrace that kind of technologies.
I don't like to be limited to choose between just two or three mice
models made by Logitech ;-)

>>> 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
>>> mice never get dirty.
>>
>> Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never?
> I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my
> activities require precision (photo and video editing).

Good to know but how many years old is your mouse (2, 5, 10...)?

>>> 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
>>> more surfaces.
>>
>> I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless
>> one.
>>
>>
> For my desktops I use exclusively "trackball/trackman" pointing devices,
> my current is cordless, optical (the sensor "reads" the movements of the
> ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to
> work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work
> for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a
> really long time (over a year).
>
> Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including
> buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora).

When wireless mice batteries last years for a 24-hour usage, I re-think
my possition. For now I'll stick to my cables. I have enough for both,
wifi and wireless technologies... both still need to be improved a lot.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Mice

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:00:24 +0200, tv.debian@googlemail.com wrote:

>>08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón:
>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
>>> surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.
>>
>> And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other
>> "hostile" environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine
>> clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-)

> I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway)
> but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer
> (or re-branded ?) technology ("darkfield") and works on mirror, glass,
> all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself),
> on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the
> receiver is really tiny.
> I used to be an "anti" cordless, because of battery consumption,
> excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky
> receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those
> annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love "spaghetti-free"
> desktops.

Good. I'll have that in mind when I have to ditch my current rolling ball
mouse... foreseen at 2020 or so :-)

But nowadays the majority of laser based mice lose their eficiency on
transparent/reflective surfaces so let's wait the market evolves this
situation a bit and more manufacturers embrace that kind of technologies.
I don't like to be limited to choose between just two or three mice
models made by Logitech ;-)

>>> 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
>>> mice never get dirty.
>>
>> Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never?
> I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my
> activities require precision (photo and video editing).

Good to know but how many years old is your mouse (2, 5, 10...)?

>>> 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
>>> more surfaces.
>>
>> I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless
>> one.
>>
>>
> For my desktops I use exclusively "trackball/trackman" pointing devices,
> my current is cordless, optical (the sensor "reads" the movements of the
> ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to
> work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work
> for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a
> really long time (over a year).
>
> Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including
> buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora).

When wireless mice batteries last years for a 24-hour usage, I re-think
my possition. For now I'll stick to my cables. I have enough for both,
wifi and wireless technologies... both still need to be improved a lot.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-08-2011, 02:49 PM
"tv.debian@googlemail.com"
 
Default Mice

>08/06/2011 15:42, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:00:24 +0200, tv.debian@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>>>> 08/06/2011 13:16, Camaleón:
>>>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
>>>> surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.
>>>
>>> And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other
>>> "hostile" environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine
>>> clear surface and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-)
>
>> I don't want to advertise a particular brand (that you'll guess anyway)
>> but I bought a cordless small mouse to go with my laptop, it has a newer
>> (or re-branded ?) technology ("darkfield") and works on mirror, glass,
>> all shiny surfaces I have tried it on (except the laptop screen itself),
>> on the lap, sofa ...etc. Plus the batteries last a long time, and the
>> receiver is really tiny.
>> I used to be an "anti" cordless, because of battery consumption,
>> excessive weight or bad weight distribution due to batteries, bulky
>> receivers, poor signal range, bad Linux support. I have to say all those
>> annoyances are gone for my use cases. I now love "spaghetti-free"
>> desktops.
>
> Good. I'll have that in mind when I have to ditch my current rolling ball
> mouse... foreseen at 2020 or so :-)
This is the "bad" side of those "good old" technologies, they were build
to last forever ! I can't explain (or can explain too well :-( ) that
some computers I own are still running on their 10 years old hard
drives, when I have to change my sata's nearly every year. Your mouse
will never fail, see you 2100 for a universal pointing device hand
implant, complete with "eternal®" nano batteries charged from
body-derived magnetic and kinetic energy !

>
> But nowadays the majority of laser based mice lose their eficiency on
> transparent/reflective surfaces so let's wait the market evolves this
> situation a bit and more manufacturers embrace that kind of technologies.
> I don't like to be limited to choose between just two or three mice
> models made by Logitech ;-)
See how devious I am, now you are doing the advertising ;-) .

>
>>>> 1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
>>>> mice never get dirty.
>>>
>>> Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never?
>> I never had to recalibrate any of my optical mouses, and some of my
>> activities require precision (photo and video editing).
>
> Good to know but how many years old is your mouse (2, 5, 10...)?
I am a heavy user and usually the buttons give up after a few years, or
the plastic/rubber casing starts looking really ugly. I admit I like it
fresh too, so none of my actively used pointing devices are older than 5
years (sitting in a box doesn't count, right ?), the two I or my wife
use the most are under two years.

>>>> 2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
>>>> more surfaces.
>>>
>>> I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless
>>> one.
>>>
>>>
>> For my desktops I use exclusively "trackball/trackman" pointing devices,
>> my current is cordless, optical (the sensor "reads" the movements of the
>> ball), works on virtually any surface since it doesn't rely on it to
>> work. As a bonus it saved me from carpal canal surgery. Now I can't work
>> for a long period with anything else. The single battery lasts for a
>> really long time (over a year).
>>
>> Those devices are all Linux friendly, and work out of the box (including
>> buttons) on my Linux's (Debian, Kubuntu, Fedora).
>
> When wireless mice batteries last years for a 24-hour usage, I re-think
> my possition. For now I'll stick to my cables. I have enough for both,
> wifi and wireless technologies... both still need to be improved a lot.
So says WHO [1]...

>
> Greetings,
>

[1]
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/05/who-declares-cellphones-possibly-carcinogenic.ars



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Old 06-08-2011, 10:15 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Mice

On 06/08/2011 06:16 AM, Camaleón wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:28:05 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:


On 06/07/2011 01:40 PM, Camaleón wrote: [snip]


I still see some disadvantages for laser or BlueTrack based mice:

1/ They do not work on crystal or clear surfaces



I can't remember the last time I put my mouse on a clear (glass?)
surface. But if I did, then I'd use a mousepad.


And what happens if you are on a conference room (or any other "hostile"
environment) with no mousepad at all? Only you, a pristine clear surface
and your hi-tech laser mouse ;-)


Then I use the trackpad on my laptop.




Disadvantages of ball mice:
1) The ball gets dirty and sticks. Yes, you can clean it, but laser
mice never get dirty.


Doesn't need to be re-calibrated? Never?


Eh? Recalibrate an optical mouse? Never heard of (or had to do) such a
thing.





2) The ball doesn't roll well on some surfaces. The laser works on
more surfaces.


I can live with a corded laser/bluetrack mouse but not with a wireless
one.



What's "bluetrack"? I agree with not wanting wireless, though.

--
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure
the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally
corrupt."
Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749


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