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Old 06-02-2011, 08:41 PM
Paul Johnson
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

I was using RedHat/Fedora for along time, then Ubuntu, now Debian.
I'm not new in Linux, just Debian. And I'm still having trouble
understanding some of the terminology.

I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer
versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R. And
since the kernel included with Squeeze crashes when I unplug the USB
headset, I need to run a newer kernel that has a patch for that
problem. (I'm afraid of testing because it does not appear it ever
pauses for a "snapshot." If Debian testing had "freeze points" like
"Fedora 14" or "Ubuntu 11.04" or such, I would probably run testing.
But testing never pauses for a mostly working snapshot. Right?)

I've followed discussion on this in here and in the web, some people
suggest a pinning setup, some people suggest waiting for
debian-backports to introduce the updated versions of programs, and
some people suggested setting the repositories for Debian Wheezy (same
as testing at the moment, right?) to get the applications from there,
and just allow apt (or synaptic, somehow different from apt in
dependency management?) to just take what is required to run the new
version.

I've experimented quite a bit with this, and have not yet found a
satisfactory plan. If I temporarily enable the Wheezy repositories
and install new versions of things, and then disable Wheezy
repositories, then I don't get security or other updates on the
testing plan. If I re-enable Wheezy repositories, then the proposed
update list includes almost all packages, not just the ones I
specifically installed from Wheezy.

I *think* pinning might be the right way to fix this, but I have not
found a configuration that would install updates from Wheezy when I
want them and take them from Squeeze when I don't. For example,
Squeeze still has the two editions of tcl and tk, with names like
tcl8.4 and tcl8.5, whereas Wheezy updates want to remove the 8.4
editions and just go with 8.5. I use some applications that will not
work if that happens.

pj

--
Paul E. Johnson
Professor, Political Science
1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504
University of Kansas


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Old 06-02-2011, 08:49 PM
shawn wilson
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On Jun 2, 2011 4:41 PM, "Paul Johnson" <pauljohn32@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> I was using RedHat/Fedora for along time, then Ubuntu, now Debian.

> I'm not new in Linux, just Debian. *And I'm still having trouble

> understanding some of the terminology.

>

> I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer

> versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R. *And

> since the kernel included with Squeeze crashes when I unplug the USB

> headset, I need to run a newer kernel that has a patch for that

> problem. * (I'm afraid of testing because it does not appear it ever

> pauses for a "snapshot." *If Debian testing had "freeze points" like

> "Fedora 14" or "Ubuntu 11.04" or such, I would probably run testing.

> But testing never pauses for a mostly working snapshot. Right?)

>

> I've followed discussion on this in here and in the web, some people

> suggest a pinning setup, some people suggest waiting for

> debian-backports to introduce the updated versions of programs, and

> some people suggested setting the repositories for Debian Wheezy (same

> as testing at the moment, right?) to get the applications from there,

> and just allow apt (or synaptic, somehow different from apt in

> dependency management?) to just take what is required to run the new

> version.

>

> I've experimented quite a bit with this, and have not yet found a

> satisfactory plan. *If I temporarily enable the Wheezy repositories

> and install new versions of things, and then disable Wheezy

> repositories, then I don't get security or other updates on the

> testing plan. If I re-enable Wheezy repositories, then the proposed

> update list includes almost all packages, not just the ones I

> specifically installed from Wheezy.

>

> I *think* pinning might be the right way to fix this, but I have not

> found a configuration that would install updates from Wheezy when I

> want them and take them from Squeeze when I don't. For example,

> Squeeze still has the two editions of tcl and tk, with names like

> tcl8.4 and tcl8.5, whereas *Wheezy updates want to remove the 8.4

> editions and just go with 8.5. *I use some applications that will not

> work if that happens.

>


jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
 
Old 06-02-2011, 08:54 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On Jo, 02 iun 11, 15:41:22, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
> I *think* pinning might be the right way to fix this, but I have not
> found a configuration that would install updates from Wheezy when I
> want them and take them from Squeeze when I don't. For example,
> Squeeze still has the two editions of tcl and tk, with names like
> tcl8.4 and tcl8.5, whereas Wheezy updates want to remove the 8.4
> editions and just go with 8.5. I use some applications that will not
> work if that happens.

Something like this:

# echo 'APT:efault-Release "squeeze";' > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99-default-release
# echo 'deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free' > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/wheezy.list
# apt-get update
# apt-get install -t wheeze my-shiny-new-app

would only try to get the minimum amount of dependencies from wheezy.

However, as wheezy gets further away from squeeze it will become
increasingly difficult to install packages from wheezy without upgrading
significant parts of your system.

At that time you might prefer to remove
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99-default-release and let apt upgrade your entire
system to wheezy.

Regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
 
Old 06-02-2011, 09:09 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On 2011-06-02 15:41:22 Paul Johnson wrote:
>I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer
>versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R.

http://www.iguanasuicide.net/node/4

Using pinning, it's fairly easy to tell APT to keep as much as possible from
stable, and whatever you don't pull from stable to continue pulling it from
the same repository (as, e.g., security updates are available).

Now, this isn't officially supported, so if you do encounter bugs, you may
need to replicate in a "cleaner" system before they get much attention.

My guide hasn't been updated in a while, but it should help point you in the
right direction(s).
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 06-03-2011, 05:28 AM
Nico Kadel-Garcia
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Paul Johnson <pauljohn32@gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer
> versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R. *And
> since the kernel included with Squeeze crashes when I unplug the USB
> headset, I need to run a newer kernel that has a patch for that
> problem. * (I'm afraid of testing because it does not appear it ever
> pauses for a "snapshot." *If Debian testing had "freeze points" like
> "Fedora 14" or "Ubuntu 11.04" or such, I would probably run testing.
> But testing never pauses for a mostly working snapshot. Right?)

If you only need a few key programs,one approach is to follow these steps.

* Set up a local download repository from the updated site. This
provides source material.

* Create a local repository with only those components, using the
"apt-ftparchive" tool in it.

* Modify your various hosts /etc/apt/sources.list to pick that local repository.

Volila, you have local control of a set of components that you can
review on a monthly basis and test for updates, or for locally built
components, or for backports or individual third party components
without pulling constantly from their sites. In fact, if you have more
than, say, a dozen hosts, it's very handy to have that *one* host pull
from an upstream mirror with apt-mirror and point your local hosts to
that local repository for local system building.

This approach also allows staging of security updates: lock your local
mirrors to a release date, deploy from *that*, and update them with a
bundled release mirror. It allows centralized control of your releases
and limits *access* to the comonents you've vetted as production ready
for your particular environment. It's also a way to help discourage
access to undesired components.


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Old 06-03-2011, 04:07 PM
Wolodja Wentland
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 15:41 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:
> I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer
> versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R. And
> since the kernel included with Squeeze crashes when I unplug the USB
> headset, I need to run a newer kernel that has a patch for that
> problem. (I'm afraid of testing because it does not appear it ever
> pauses for a "snapshot." If Debian testing had "freeze points" like
> "Fedora 14" or "Ubuntu 11.04" or such, I would probably run testing.
> But testing never pauses for a mostly working snapshot. Right?)

I summarised a couple of methods to obtain newer software on stable releases
in [0] and you can, for example, easily install a newer kernel from backports.

Both LyX and R might be harder to upgrade, but it is probably a good idea to
search for backports too or attempt the "ssb" (simple sid backports) method
outlined in the referenced mail. That might or might not be an easy thing to
do, which depends entirely on the dependencies of these packages. I would,
however, strongly advise against mixing stable and testing/unstable as this
will just lead to madness.

If all this doesn't work out for you, you might still want to try running
Wheezy, which will require more work but gives you access to newer software.
It is hard to find a good balance and you have to take this decision yourself.
If you are interested in pursuing this approach I would recommend to read [1]
or to pop into #debian-next on irc.oftc.net to discuss your needs.

[0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/05/msg01325.html
[1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable
--
.'`. Wolodja Wentland <babilen@gmail.com>
: :' :
`. `'` 4096R/CAF14EFC
`- 081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA 36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC
 
Old 06-03-2011, 04:11 PM
Thomas Milne
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Wolodja Wentland <babilen@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 15:41 -0500, Paul Johnson wrote:

> I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer

> versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R. *And

> since the kernel included with Squeeze crashes when I unplug the USB

> headset, I need to run a newer kernel that has a patch for that

> problem. * (I'm afraid of testing because it does not appear it ever

> pauses for a "snapshot." *If Debian testing had "freeze points" like

> "Fedora 14" or "Ubuntu 11.04" or such, I would probably run testing.

> But testing never pauses for a mostly working snapshot. Right?)



I summarised a couple of methods to obtain newer software on stable releases

in [0] and you can, for example, easily install a newer kernel from backports.



Both LyX and R might be harder to upgrade, but it is probably a good idea to

search for backports too or attempt the "ssb" (simple sid backports) method

outlined in the referenced mail. That might or might not be an easy thing to

do, which depends entirely on the dependencies of these packages. I would,

however, strongly advise against mixing stable and testing/unstable as this

will just lead to madness.



If all this doesn't work out for you, you might still want to try running

Wheezy, which will require more work but gives you access to newer software.

It is hard to find a good balance and you have to take this decision yourself.

If you are interested in pursuing this approach I would recommend to read [1]

or to pop into #debian-next on irc.oftc.net to discuss your needs.



[0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/05/msg01325.html

[1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable
Well, another method is to use apt pinning, no? That way you can run stable but use testing or unstable packages when needed. It is very easy to do. There are many pinning howtos which can be easily found, basically you have stable, testing and unstable in your sources.list, then create an apt prefs file telling apt what the priority is for each.
*--
Thomas Milne
 
Old 06-04-2011, 10:39 AM
darkestkhan
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

2011/6/2 Paul Johnson <pauljohn32@gmail.com>:
> I was using RedHat/Fedora for along time, then Ubuntu, now Debian.
> I'm not new in Linux, just Debian. *And I'm still having trouble
> understanding some of the terminology.
>
> I want to run the stable distribution--Squeeze--except I need newer
> versions of some key programs I use in my work, like LyX and R. *And
> since the kernel included with Squeeze crashes when I unplug the USB
> headset, I need to run a newer kernel that has a patch for that
> problem. * (I'm afraid of testing because it does not appear it ever
> pauses for a "snapshot." *If Debian testing had "freeze points" like
> "Fedora 14" or "Ubuntu 11.04" or such, I would probably run testing.
> But testing never pauses for a mostly working snapshot. Right?)
>

Debian Testing is working properly most of the time, though I can't
guarantee that as I'm running Debian sid / experimental, which is also
working most of the time (at least for me, though in sid / exp from
time to time it is not working properly). I would say go with Wheezy
(especially that you are not new to GNU/Linux)

darkestkhan
------------------------------------------
Feel free to CC me.
jid: darkestkhan@gmail.com
May The Source be with You.


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Old 06-04-2011, 02:07 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default New Guy asks: I want to run Squeeze, except for a few particular things...

On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 10:39 +0000, darkestkhan wrote:
> I would say go with Wheezy

+1

I installed stable (squeeze) and than upgraded to testing (wheezy), I
just kept X from stable. What for other distros is called 'stable' IMO
isn't that stable as Debian testing.

I should have installed testing directly, instead of stable.


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