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Old 05-14-2011, 03:47 AM
Itay
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

Hi,

I am experiencing major network problems after the upgrade.
Rebooting solves the problem for a short while - after 5
minutes, or so, network will be lost.

Based on searches in the internet I pasted below some info that
I understand might help to resolve the problem.

Please help.
Thanks,
Itay


I seem to have NetworkManager active (I think I blindly opted
for it during the upgrade process - not sure)
<# ps -efl | grep -i network>
5 S root 1832 1 0 80 0 - 19611 - 05:23 ?
00:00:00 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
</# ps -efl | grep -i network>

(
Do I really need it? It's home LAN. Anyway I configured the
router to assign fixed IP's for our PC's, laptops, etc.
)


<$ cat /etc/network/interfaces>
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug eth0
#NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp
</$ cat /etc/network/interfaces>

(
Old interfaces file was identical, except that the last line
wasn't commented-out, i.e.: 'iface eth0 inet dhcp'
I tried it without much success.
)


<$ dmesg | grep eth0>
[ 0.820095] forcedeth 0000:00:0a.0: ifname eth0,
PHY OUI 0x732 @ 3, addr 00:26:18:72:71:14
[ 30.364009] eth0: no IPv6 routers present
</$ dmesg | grep eth0>


<$ lspci | grep -i eth>
00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation
MCP79 Ethernet (rev b1)
</$ lspci | grep -i eth>


<# ifconfig -a>
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:26:18:72:71:14
inet6 addr: fe80::226:18ff:fe72:7114/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:4317 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:3643 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:4309480 (4.1 MiB) TX bytes:490343 (478.8 KiB)
Interrupt:20 Base address:0xe000

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:244 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:244 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:16212 (15.8 KiB) TX bytes:16212 (15.8 KiB)

pan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr e2:cc:28:0e:89:2d
BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
</# ifconfig -a>


<$ uname -a>
Linux gandalf 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Mar 7 21:35:22 UTC 2011
x86_64 GNU/Linux
</$ uname -a>




--
Itay Furman itayf@fastmail.fm
--------------------------------------
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:08 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Sat, 14 May 2011 06:47:43 +0300, Itay wrote:

> I am experiencing major network problems after the upgrade. Rebooting
> solves the problem for a short while - after 5 minutes, or so, network
> will be lost.

Looks like the typical problem coming from a DHCP setup :-)

(...)

> I seem to have NetworkManager active (I think I blindly opted for it
> during the upgrade process - not sure) <# ps -efl | grep -i network>
> 5 S root 1832 1 0 80 0 - 19611 - 05:23 ?
> 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
> </# ps -efl | grep -i network>
>
> (
> Do I really need it? It's home LAN. Anyway I configured the router
> to assign fixed IP's for our PC's, laptops, etc.
> )

No, you don't need it.

But deciding what to do with NM is a decision that has to be taken by the
user. Some of us keep NM installed but have it disabled while others
prefer to directly remove the package. OTOH, other people seems to be
happy with NM and use it every day :-)

> <$ cat /etc/network/interfaces>
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> # The primary network interface
> allow-hotplug eth0
> #NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp
> </$ cat /etc/network/interfaces>

So your network card settings (IP, netmask, gateway, DNS...) all comes
from your router, right?

> (
> Old interfaces file was identical, except that the last line wasn't
> commented-out, i.e.: 'iface eth0 inet dhcp' I tried it without much
> success.
> )

You need to configure your "/etc/network/interfaces" file to use a setup
that suits your needs:

http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration

(...)

> <# ifconfig -a>
> eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:26:18:72:71:14
> inet6 addr: fe80::226:18ff:fe72:7114/64 Scope:Link UP
> BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX
> packets:4317 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX
> packets:3643 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
> collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
> RX bytes:4309480 (4.1 MiB) TX bytes:490343 (478.8 KiB)
> Interrupt:20 Base address:0xe000

The above means that your network card has been recognized by the system
but it has no data on it (no IP, netmask...) so it's normal that you
cannot browse the network. Either your "interfaces" file is wrong or your
router cannot reach your computer or has any problem to provide all the
required parameters to your machine.

I would start by "/etc/network/interfaces", yo can try:

***
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
***

Save the file and then issue "ifdown eth0" and "ifup eth0" to reload the
interface. After that, run "/sbin/ifconfig" and "ip ro" to check all is
okay... and if it's not, run "dmesg | grep eth0" to find out why :-)

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 05-14-2011, 08:11 AM
Itay
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

Dear Camaleon, thank you for your detailed reply.

So far, following your advice, and others', network seem to work.
Details are inserted below.

Thanks,
Itay


On Sat, 14 May 2011, Camaleón wrote:


Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 07:08:18 +0000 (UTC)
From: Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com>

On Sat, 14 May 2011 06:47:43 +0300, Itay wrote:


I seem to have NetworkManager active (...)
<# ps -efl | grep -i network>
5 S root 1832 1 0 80 0 - 19611 - 05:23 ?
00:00:00 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
</# ps -efl | grep -i network>

(Do I really need it? It's home LAN. ...)


No, you don't need it.


I thought it was not required -- but wasn't sure.

I browsed the manpage (of NetworkManager) and the very interesting
thread you have initiated on

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg00424.html
but still can't make up my mind what would be the added value.
Is NetworkManger primarily useful for portable computers? for very
large networks?




<$ cat /etc/network/interfaces>
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug eth0
#NetworkManager#iface eth0 inet dhcp
</$ cat /etc/network/interfaces>


So your network card settings (IP, netmask, gateway, DNS...) all comes
from your router, right?


Yes to all.


(...)


You need to configure your "/etc/network/interfaces" file to use a setup
that suits your needs:

http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration


Thanks for the link, I will study it.


(...)


<# ifconfig -a>
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:26:18:72:71:14
inet6 addr: fe80::226:18ff:fe72:7114/64 Scope:Link UP
BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX
packets:4317 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX
packets:3643 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:4309480 (4.1 MiB) TX bytes:490343 (478.8 KiB)
Interrupt:20 Base address:0xe000


The above means that your network card has been recognized by the system
but it has no data on it (no IP, netmask...) so it's normal that you
cannot browse the network. Either your "interfaces" file is wrong or your
router cannot reach your computer or has any problem to provide all the
required parameters to your machine.

I would start by "/etc/network/interfaces", yo can try:

***
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
***

Save the file and then issue "ifdown eth0" and "ifup eth0" to reload the
interface. After that, run "/sbin/ifconfig" and "ip ro" to check all is
okay... and if it's not, run "dmesg | grep eth0" to find out why :-)


OK I followed your advice (also given by Shell Xu on private email --
thank you) more-or-less.


Based on some advice in
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg00424.html
1) I disabled NetworkManager by adding 'exit 0' right after the 1st
line in the /etc/init.d/network-manager.

2) I used the old /etc/network/interfaces (identical to your example)
3) Rebooted.

I will go on working like this for few days, maybe few reboots, to
verify that this setup is stable.


Itay
 
Old 05-14-2011, 09:03 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Sat, 14 May 2011 11:11:55 +0300, Itay wrote:

> On Sat, 14 May 2011, Camaleón wrote:
>
>>> I seem to have NetworkManager active (...) <# ps -efl | grep -i
>>> network>
>>> 5 S root 1832 1 0 80 0 - 19611 - 05:23 ?
>>> 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
>>> </# ps -efl | grep -i network>
>>>
>>> (Do I really need it? It's home LAN. ...)
>>
>> No, you don't need it.
>
> I thought it was not required -- but wasn't sure.
>
> I browsed the manpage (of NetworkManager) and the very interesting
> thread you have initiated on
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/12/msg00424.html
> but still can't make up my mind what would be the added value. Is
> NetworkManger primarily useful for portable computers? for very large
> networks?

Yes (to the former question) and no (to the latter) :-)

In linux we have been using -since years- a system to configure anything
related to the network stack. That old system is called "ifup" (or at
least that's the name I was used to use) but with todays new devices
(like laptops having 2 or 3 network adapters) and the needing for a
method to manage all of them (like the possibility of creating profiles
for every usage), having all that in mind, it was born a new way for
setting up the network: NetworkManager.

Over the paper, it aims to be a dynamic and easy way to manage all of the
user's needings regarding his network setup but the easiness has a price
and sometimes NM it becomes more than a headache to get it configured
properly.

For that reason, unless you really obtain any benefit of NM inherent
characteristics (fast network profile switching, rapid access to VPN...)
you can safely disable it (or even remove it).

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 05-30-2011, 07:53 AM
Itay
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Sat, 14 May 2011, Itay wrote:


I am experiencing major network problems after the upgrade.
Rebooting solves the problem for a short while - after 5
minutes, or so, network will be lost.

Based on searches in the internet I pasted below some info that
I understand might help to resolve the problem.

Please help.
Thanks,
Itay



So I purged NetworkManager; network works fine.
Tested after several reboots and system updates.

Thanks to Camaleón and Shell Xu for advice and detailed explanations.
See thread for details.

Itay
 
Old 05-30-2011, 04:19 PM
Nico Kadel-Garcia
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Itay <debian@itayf.fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 May 2011, Itay wrote:
>
>> I am experiencing major network problems after the upgrade.
>> Rebooting solves the problem for a short while - after 5
>> minutes, or so, network will be lost.
>>
>> Based on searches in the internet I pasted below some info that
>> I understand might help to resolve the problem.
>>
>> Please help.
>> Thanks,
>> Itay
>
>
> So I purged NetworkManager; network works fine.
> Tested after several reboots and system updates.
>
> Thanks to Camaleón and Shell Xu for advice and detailed explanations.
> See thread for details.

NetworkManager has been one of the biggest disasters in GUI and
configuration history known to open source. It has absolutely *no* use
in normal desktop or server operation: it cannot configure basic
configurations such as pair-bonding or bridges effectively, and its
ability to wipe out and override normal configuratons without warning
is the bane of stability.

It has some vague uses for traveling laptops, that may need
comfortable tools to manipulate VPN's and wireless connections, but
it's that good even at those.


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Old 05-31-2011, 11:54 PM
Tom H
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> NetworkManager has been one of the biggest disasters in GUI and
> configuration history known to open source. It has absolutely *no* use
> in normal desktop or server operation: it cannot configure basic
> configurations such as pair-bonding or bridges effectively, and its
> ability to wipe out and override normal configuratons without warning
> is the bane of stability.
>
> It has some vague uses for traveling laptops, that may need
> comfortable tools to manipulate VPN's and wireless connections, but
> it's that good even at those.

I hate to disappoint you but I can see the day where we'll have NM
running on headless, X-less boxes. Fedora 13/14/15 install it when you
do a kickstart install with just "@base" in "packages" section.
Scientific Linux 6 (and I therefore assume RHEL 6) doesn't have it by
default but I wouldn't be surprised to see it there in v7. There's a
site where I admin some Fedora boxes. I used to have "/usr/bin/yum -y
erase NetworkManager" in my "%post" section but I've now given up the
anti-NM fight; I've just set up a dev F15 box with NM.

I've just installed NM in two Debian and Ubuntu server VMs and it runs
fine so it could be added to all tasksel tasks. I'm sure that there'd
be a big discussion on the respective devel lists if anyone proposed
to install NM in the basic server installs (this discussion would
probably make the insserv discussion mild and civilized by
comparison).


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Old 06-01-2011, 02:03 AM
Nico Kadel-Garcia
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> NetworkManager has been one of the biggest disasters in GUI and
>> configuration history known to open source. It has absolutely *no* use
>> in normal desktop or server operation: it cannot configure basic
>> configurations such as pair-bonding or bridges effectively, and its
>> ability to wipe out and override normal configuratons without warning
>> is the bane of stability.
>>
>> It has some vague uses for traveling laptops, that may need
>> comfortable tools to manipulate VPN's and wireless connections, but
>> it's that good even at those.
>
> I hate to disappoint you but I can see the day where we'll have NM
> running on headless, X-less boxes. Fedora 13/14/15 install it when you
> do a kickstart install with just "@base" in "packages" section.
> Scientific Linux 6 (and I therefore assume RHEL 6) doesn't have it by
> default but I wouldn't be surprised to see it there in v7. There's a
> site where I admin some Fedora boxes. I used to have "/usr/bin/yum -y
> erase NetworkManager" in my "%post" section but I've now given up the
> anti-NM fight; I've just set up a dev F15 box with NM.
>
> I've just installed NM in two Debian and Ubuntu server VMs and it runs
> fine so it could be added to all tasksel tasks. I'm sure that there'd
> be a big discussion on the respective devel lists if anyone proposed
> to install NM in the basic server installs (this discussion would
> probably make the insserv discussion mild and civilized by
> comparison).

Try to set up pair-bonding, or bridged network devices for KVM use
correctly with NetworkManager. Unless something has really changed,
they're not supported, and these are very basic network configurations
for production servers. The software violates the most basic of
principles of open source GUI design. This includes *every single one*
of my published add-ons to Eric Raymond's guidelines on open source
GUI's at http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html. (Eric
gracefully included my notes as an addendum to his article: I think
i'm the only one who sent additional guidelines for that article,
rather than merely agreeing with its well justified rant about open
source GUI's.)

The worst points are the NetworkManager cannot *read* basic network
configuration values such as pair-bonding, it will *overwrite* them,
and it *will not tell you it did so*. It will muck up your /etc/hosts
and your /etc/resolv.conf *without warning*. And it's completely
unnecessary for any but a few hosts that wander from wireless to wired
to VPN to publicn internet and need a vaguely comprehensible GUI. It
therefore absolutely should not be a part of any basic OS
installation, and should only be used for laptops or other wandering
hardware for which its limited flexibility is, in fact, useful.


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Old 06-02-2011, 03:47 PM
Tom H
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Try to set up pair-bonding, or bridged network devices for KVM use
> correctly with NetworkManager. Unless something has really changed,
> they're not supported, and these are very basic network configurations
> for production servers. The software violates the most basic of
> principles of open source GUI design. This includes *every single one*
> of my published add-ons to Eric Raymond's guidelines on open source
> GUI's at http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html. (Eric
> gracefully included my notes as an addendum to his article: I think
> i'm the only one who sent additional guidelines for that article,
> rather than merely agreeing with its well justified rant about open
> source GUI's.)
>
> The worst points are the NetworkManager cannot *read* basic network
> configuration values such as pair-bonding, it will *overwrite* them,
> and it *will not tell you it did so*. It will muck up your /etc/hosts
> and your /etc/resolv.conf *without warning*. And it's completely
> unnecessary for any but a few hosts that wander from wireless to wired
> to VPN to publicn internet and need a vaguely comprehensible GUI. It
> therefore absolutely should not be a part of any basic OS
> installation, and should only be used for laptops or other wandering
> hardware for which its *limited flexibility is, in fact, useful.

I know that NM can't do bonding or bridging - yet (they've been
promising them both for a few years now). It'll come - one day. I've
installed it on a dev box that the company's DBA convinced the IT
manager to get him rather than use his desktop as a testing ground.
The other servers use bonding and don't have NM installed.

I'm glad that the NM GUI's considered (at least by some) as not
conforming to basic design principles; I've always found its GUI weird
but it's been getting less weird (unless I've gotten used to it!). But
when I installed NM on this server, it was without a GUI - for NM or
anything else on the box.

One pro-NM argument that I've seen is that dynamic configuration - a
la udev - is the way that a modern OS should function. I don't see why
a server would need dynamic configuration but that's more than likely
the direction that we'll all end up going today or in a century.


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Old 06-02-2011, 04:18 PM
Paul E Condon
 
Default Lost network after lenny-to-squeeze upgrade

On 20110602_114715, Tom H wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
> One pro-NM argument that I've seen is that dynamic configuration - a
> la udev - is the way that a modern OS should function. I don't see why
> a server would need dynamic configuration but that's more than likely
> the direction that we'll all end up going today or in a century.

Dynamic configuration of servers is a great boon to integrated
hardware/software suppliers who want to control their customers'
configurations. (What company doesn't want to control its customers?)
If not the supplier company, then some political authority. The allowed
configurations are/will be stored in the cloud where the customer/sysadmin
can't touch them or even know that they exist.

A scary paranoid thought. But paranoids can have friends who want to
protect them from the knowledge that they are not in control.

--
Paul E Condon
pecondon@mesanetworks.net


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