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Old 05-05-2011, 06:04 PM
Greg Madden
 
Default Customising Debian install

On Thursday 05 May 2011 09:12:47 am Andrew Wood wrote:
> Whats the best way to go about making a custom installation of Debian
> which I can then install onto multiple machines without having to go
> through and manually add extra packages and remove certain default
> packges from each machine?
>
> For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with
> LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other
> packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing
> the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS.
>
> How come the packages have dependencies like this, surely removing an IM
> client shouldnt also trigger removal of everything else.

I use 'apt-cache depends or rdepends' to see whats what with dependencies. Not
installing a desktop environment package, ie: 'gnome-desktop-environment' would
be a good start to customizing a DE. Using gtk versions of apps instead of gnome
version helps, though it seems the trend is to have monolithic DE's.


--
Peace,

Greg


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Old 05-05-2011, 07:21 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Customising Debian install

On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote:

> Whats the best way to go about making a custom installation of Debian
> which I can then install onto multiple machines without having to go
> through and manually add extra packages and remove certain default
> packges from each machine?

I'm only aware about the preseeding¹ option, like Boyd pointed out, but
still not played in deep with it so what I do is installing a small set
of packages at install time (for servers I only select the "base" pattern
and for workstations the "desktop" one) and then manually trigger the
remainder.

> For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with
> LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other
> packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing
> the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS.

How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily
removable :-?

> How come the packages have dependencies like this, surely removing an IM
> client shouldnt also trigger removal of everything else.

Yep, that's not normal.

> As an example, Id like to remove things like Iceweasal and Epiphany so
> that theyre not installed by default but include our own custom Firefox
> .deb
>
> Likewise Id like to do away with Empathy and Tomboy.
>
> Surely theres a way to automate this and then build my own iso images so
> i dont have to customise each PC after installation?

I would perform all of those operations (install/uninstall) once the
system has been installed. Then, if there are any weird interdependencies
between packages that lead you to remove the core ones, just report it.

¹http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 05-05-2011, 08:08 PM
Tom Furie
 
Default Customising Debian install

On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 07:21:22PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
> On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote:

> > For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with
> > LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other
> > packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing
> > the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS.
>
> How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily
> removable :-?

The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on
empathy. As with many of these "all encomapssing" meta packages you are
usually better off picking just the subset of packages that you actually
want.

Cheers,
Tom

--
Mere nonexistence is a feeble excuse for declaring a thing unseeable. You
*can* see dragons. You just have to look in the right direction.
-- John Hasler
 
Old 05-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Heddle Weaver
 
Default Customising Debian install

On 6 May 2011 06:08, Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> wrote:

On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 07:21:22PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote:



> > For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with

> > LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. Â*For other

> > packages it just results in disaster, for example Â*Ive tried removing

> > the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS.

>

> How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily

> removable :-?



The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on

empathy. As with many of these "all encomapssing" meta packages you are

usually better off picking just the subset of packages that you actually

want.

This is what I normally do, then use fluxbox or openbox for a smaller installation.
Installing 'just what you want' drags in required dependencies but can lead, sometimes, to a little instability I have found. Installing one or two other related packages normally stabilises the situation though.

Regards,

Weaver.--

Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.
 
Old 05-06-2011, 10:40 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Customising Debian install

On Thu, 05 May 2011 21:08:05 +0100, Tom Furie wrote:

> On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 07:21:22PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 May 2011 18:12:47 +0100, Andrew Wood wrote:
>
>> > For certain things like removing OpenOffice and replacing it with
>> > LibreOffice this approach works but is time consuming. For other
>> > packages it just results in disaster, for example Ive tried removing
>> > the empathy package and have inadvertently removed the entire OS.
>>
>> How is that? Empathy is just an IM client, it should be easily
>> removable :-?
>
> The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on
> empathy. As with many of these "all encomapssing" meta packages you are
> usually better off picking just the subset of packages that you actually
> want.

Ugh... very true, at least for squeeze onwards :-(

http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome-desktop-environment

Then better install "gnome-core", right?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 05-08-2011, 09:09 AM
godo
 
Default Customising Debian install

Ugh... very true, at least for squeeze onwards :-(

http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gnome-desktop-environment

Then better install "gnome-core", right?

Greetings,


That's right.
KDE have kde-minimal (or something like that) and XFCE have xfce4 + xfce
goodies.


--
Bye,
Goran Dobosevic
Hrvatski: www.dobosevic.com
English: www.dobosevic.com/en/
Registered Linux User #503414


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Old 05-08-2011, 07:36 PM
Andrew Wood
 
Default Customising Debian install

Whats the logic here? Surely it should be the other way round?

The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on
empathy.



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Old 05-08-2011, 08:12 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default Customising Debian install

On Du, 08 mai 11, 20:36:48, Andrew Wood wrote:
> Whats the logic here? Surely it should be the other way round?
> >The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on
> >empathy.

I assume you don't mean empathy should depend on
gnome-desktop-environment, but wonder why removing one "leaf" package
can have such an effect

The answer is quite simple: a "Depends:" relationship expresses that a
package A can not function without a particular package B, so removing
the package B will trigger the removal of package A.

Now consider that package A also depends on C and D, and these were
installed only as dependencies of A. Since the package manager considers
that C and D are not needed anymore it offers to remove them.

Regards,
Andrei
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:48 PM
Andrew Wood
 
Default Customising Debian install

I dont see why Gnome as a whole depends on Empathy.

On a separate note, the task selection in the installer governs which
packages are installed by default.


If I wanted to make a custom derived distro presumably the first point
of call (after creating my own repository and copying all the stable
packages to it) would be modifying the task selector to alter what is
installed by default?


But Im a bit perplexed by why Gnome as a whole is dependent on what I
see as simply user apps on top of Gnome which Gnome should be able to
function perfectly well without.


To me the package dependencies here are screwed? Removing an IM client
or a web browser shouldnt cause the whole desktop environment to be
removed too.



On 08/05/2011 21:12, Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Du, 08 mai 11, 20:36:48, Andrew Wood wrote:

Whats the logic here? Surely it should be the other way round?

The problem here, I think, is that gnome-desktop-environment depends on
empathy.

I assume you don't mean empathy should depend on
gnome-desktop-environment, but wonder why removing one "leaf" package
can have such an effect

The answer is quite simple: a "Depends:" relationship expresses that a
package A can not function without a particular package B, so removing
the package B will trigger the removal of package A.

Now consider that package A also depends on C and D, and these were
installed only as dependencies of A. Since the package manager considers
that C and D are not needed anymore it offers to remove them.

Regards,
Andrei



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Old 05-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Erwan David
 
Default Customising Debian install

Le Mon 9/05/2011, Andrew Wood disait
> I dont see why Gnome as a whole depends on Empathy.
>
> On a separate note, the task selection in the installer governs
> which packages are installed by default.
>
> If I wanted to make a custom derived distro presumably the first
> point of call (after creating my own repository and copying all the
> stable packages to it) would be modifying the task selector to alter
> what is installed by default?
>
> But Im a bit perplexed by why Gnome as a whole is dependent on what
> I see as simply user apps on top of Gnome which Gnome should be able
> to function perfectly well without.
>
> To me the package dependencies here are screwed? Removing an IM
> client or a web browser shouldnt cause the whole desktop environment
> to be removed too.
>

gnome is not a real package, but a meta package depending on (almost) all
gnome components in order to allow installation with a single command.

But if you remove one of the component, you break the dependency of the meta
package thus it is removed, then other components registered as automatically
installed, are not needed by the metapackage anymore, and thus are removed.



--
Erwan


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