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Old 02-07-2008, 02:34 PM
Александър Л. Димитров
 
Default Java Grey Windows/Blank Windows/Sun are stupid

Hi list,

let me first say that Sun are incredibly stupid. I mean really. Astoundingly
stupid. Stultifingly stupid.

This bug

http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6429775

has been closed. Which is wrong, this bug should really be open, because it
ain't fixed. I'm using a non-reparenting WM (XMonad) and since they've been so
incredibly unprofessional to hard-code a list of supported WMs into their code
- or something like it - and XMonad is (like any other tiling WM) not part of
that list, it's no good. Anyways, they're relying on all WMs to be reparenting,
which is brain dead. If a WM is not showing up as supported, windows are painted
grey. No widgets, no buttons, no way to interact.

This has been a known problem for a while. A long while. There exist several
workarounds. One of them is to change the toolkit like this:

AWT_TOOLKIT=MToolkit java SomeApp.class

This is wrong, doesn't always work and has bad side effects. It's not working in
my case anyways.

There was another workaround which I remember having employed several times
successfully already - but I don't remember the details and after a frustrating
Google search it seems the instructions are nowhere to be found.

It involved sed -i'ing some obscure java-x-lib and removing xinerama extensions
and replacing them with something else, like a dummy parameter. But all this
relys on accurate information about how to do it and I don't know it. Maybe
those are really two unrelated things (one having to do with WM-names, the other
with Xinerama extensions being compiled into X libs..) but I think they were at
least connected. I have xinerama. I need it.

Does any one of you happen to remember how to resolve this frustration of mine?
I really need that java app (and I need to use commercial sun-jre for that) and
this app really relys on its GUI and I'm really short on time now. I would be
really thankful if anyone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks, and sorry for bothering you with my questions about commercial packages
Aleks

PS: I'm using jre 1.6.0_04
 
Old 02-10-2008, 10:48 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default Java Grey Windows/Blank Windows/Sun are stupid

On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:34:37PM +0100, Александър Л. Димитров wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> let me first say that Sun are incredibly stupid. I mean really. Astoundingly
> stupid. Stultifingly stupid.
>
> This bug
>
> http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6429775
>
> has been closed. Which is wrong, this bug should really be open, because it
> ain't fixed. I'm using a non-reparenting WM (XMonad) and since they've been so
> incredibly unprofessional to hard-code a list of supported WMs into their code
> - or something like it - and XMonad is (like any other tiling WM) not part of
> that list, it's no good. Anyways, they're relying on all WMs to be reparenting,
> which is brain dead. If a WM is not showing up as supported, windows are painted
> grey. No widgets, no buttons, no way to interact.
>
> This has been a known problem for a while. A long while. There exist several
> workarounds. One of them is to change the toolkit like this:
>
> AWT_TOOLKIT=MToolkit java SomeApp.class

yeah, its annoying...

>
> This is wrong, doesn't always work and has bad side effects. It's not working in
> my case anyways.
>
> There was another workaround which I remember having employed several times
> successfully already - but I don't remember the details and after a frustrating
> Google search it seems the instructions are nowhere to be found.
>
> It involved sed -i'ing some obscure java-x-lib and removing xinerama extensions
> and replacing them with something else, like a dummy parameter. But all this
> relys on accurate information about how to do it and I don't know it. Maybe
> those are really two unrelated things (one having to do with WM-names, the other
> with Xinerama extensions being compiled into X libs..) but I think they were at
> least connected. I have xinerama. I need it.
>
> Does any one of you happen to remember how to resolve this
> frustration of mine?

I know it's three days later, but you're best bet is to go to #xmonad.

A
 
Old 02-10-2008, 11:41 PM
Александър Л. Димитров
 
Default Java Grey Windows/Blank Windows/Sun are stupid

Quoth Andrew Sackville-West:
> On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:34:37PM +0100, Александър Л. Димитров wrote:
> >
> > AWT_TOOLKIT=MToolkit java SomeApp.class
>
> yeah, its annoying...

A little bit...
> >
> > This is wrong, doesn't always work and has bad side effects. It's not working in
> > my case anyways.
> >
> > There was another workaround which I remember having employed several times
> > successfully already - but I don't remember the details and after a frustrating
> > Google search it seems the instructions are nowhere to be found.
> >
> > It involved sed -i'ing some obscure java-x-lib and removing xinerama extensions
> > and replacing them with something else, like a dummy parameter. But all this
> > relys on accurate information about how to do it and I don't know it. Maybe
> > those are really two unrelated things (one having to do with WM-names, the other
> > with Xinerama extensions being compiled into X libs..) but I think they were at
> > least connected. I have xinerama. I need it.
> >
> > Does any one of you happen to remember how to resolve this
> > frustration of mine?
>
> I know it's three days later, but you're best bet is to go to #xmonad.

Yeah, they know that problem, but it seems to be non-trivial to get around it.
There is an XMonad extension that fakes the WM-name and thus makes things work
(can you imagine that? I'm a programmer... my guts *cringe* when I read about a
workaround *this* stupid - that's what you get taught in *every* CS class: don't
blow it up _that_ seriously!! -Environmental Descriptions- are not to be hardcoded!!).
As it seems, this does cause segfaults for some people, however.

By the way, I've found out about that xinerama-thing. Well, it was something
else entirely, connected to xlib-segfaults when starting java apps. That was a
problem a while ago, they seem to have fixed it, though I remember it being
around for at least half a year...

It seems Sun is letting interns design their X-interface. Though I think interns
should actually perform better.

Aleks
 
Old 02-11-2008, 12:31 AM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default Java Grey Windows/Blank Windows/Sun are stupid

On Mon, Feb 11, 2008 at 01:41:56AM +0100, Александър Л. Димитров wrote:
> >
> > I know it's three days later, but you're best bet is to go to #xmonad.
>
> Yeah, they know that problem, but it seems to be non-trivial to get around it.
> There is an XMonad extension that fakes the WM-name and thus makes things work
> (can you imagine that? I'm a programmer... my guts *cringe* when I read about a
> workaround *this* stupid - that's what you get taught in *every* CS class: don't
> blow it up _that_ seriously!! -Environmental Descriptions- are not to be hardcoded!!).
> As it seems, this does cause segfaults for some people, however.

I agree, that is the definition of an ugly hack.

So in terms of an ugly hack to solve your problem -- how to run this
java-x app in xmonad... If it's a critical must have app but you are
unable to give up xmonad (I'm with you there!), here's an idea.

Why not run just this java app in an xnest or xserver-xephyr session?
If the app will run and display without a window manager at all, like using
startx java-app or having just the java-app in your .xinitrc, then you
could even run that nested session without a WM altogether. Or run it
fullscreen in whatever WM you can get to work with it. I have
absolutely no idea how hard it would be to do this and whether the
results would be satisfactory. I also recognise that it's just as ugly
a hack as spoofing the WM name, but maybe it would work for you.

A
 

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