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Old 01-04-2011, 02:57 PM
"David A. Bandel"
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

Folks,

I've googled this with no helpful results (several unhelpful results
regarding dpkg-reconfigure console-data though).

I want to get back to the old behavior I had where my i386/pc/qwerty
keyboards had dead keys for international characters (like ~n, but
with the ~ over the n).

Can this be done anymore or not?

dpkg-reconfigure console-data and selecting all keyboards provides me
this (abbreviated) list:
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / Standard
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / US International (ISO 8859-1)
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / US International (ISO 8859-15)
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / With latin1

"dead keys" are not in the list. I've tried some of these (the first
two choices), but no dead keys. The nice thing about dead keys
(besides being used to them) is that they worked in xterm, OpenOffice,
IceWeasel, etc.

I will RTFM gladly if pointed at the appropriate FM to R.

TIA,

David A. Bandel
--
Focus on the dream, not the competition.
* * * * * * - Nemesis Air Racing Team motto
Visit my web page at: http://david.bandel.us/


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Old 01-04-2011, 03:11 PM
Camalen
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:57:22 -0500, David A. Bandel wrote:

> I want to get back to the old behavior I had where my i386/pc/qwerty
> keyboards had dead keys for international characters (like ~n, but with
> the ~ over the n).
>
> Can this be done anymore or not?
>
> dpkg-reconfigure console-data and selecting all keyboards provides me
> this (abbreviated) list:
> pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / Standard pc / qwerty / US
> american / Standard / US International (ISO 8859-1) pc / qwerty / US
> american / Standard / US International (ISO 8859-15) pc / qwerty / US
> american / Standard / With latin1
>
> "dead keys" are not in the list. I've tried some of these (the first
> two choices), but no dead keys. The nice thing about dead keys (besides
> being used to them) is that they worked in xterm, OpenOffice, IceWeasel,
> etc.

Usually you can do this by using your DE keyboard settings (in GNOME,
gnome-keyboard-properties / layout / adding US-Intl "altgr dead keys").

Or by manually editing "/etc/defaults/keyboard" values, i.e.:

***
XKBLAYOUT="us"
XKBVARIANT="intl"
***

Greetings,

--
Camalen


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Old 01-04-2011, 05:25 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 10:57:22AM EST, David A. Bandel wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I've googled this with no helpful results (several unhelpful results
> regarding dpkg-reconfigure console-data though).
>
> I want to get back to the old behavior I had where my i386/pc/qwerty
> keyboards had dead keys for international characters (like ~n, but
> with the ~ over the n).

[..]

$ setxkbmap us -variant intl # switch to dead keys intl layout
$ setxkbmap us # back to basic US layout

cj


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Old 01-04-2011, 07:44 PM
Doug
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

On 01/04/2011 10:57 AM, David A. Bandel wrote:

Folks,

I've googled this with no helpful results (several unhelpful results
regarding dpkg-reconfigure console-data though).

I want to get back to the old behavior I had where my i386/pc/qwerty
keyboards had dead keys for international characters (like ~n, but
with the ~ over the n).

Can this be done anymore or not?

dpkg-reconfigure console-data and selecting all keyboards provides me
this (abbreviated) list:
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / Standard
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / US International (ISO 8859-1)
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / US International (ISO 8859-15)
pc / qwerty / US american / Standard / With latin1

"dead keys" are not in the list. I've tried some of these (the first
two choices), but no dead keys. The nice thing about dead keys
(besides being used to them) is that they worked in xterm, OpenOffice,
IceWeasel, etc.

I will RTFM gladly if pointed at the appropriate FM to R.

TIA,

David A. Bandel

There's a better way. It uses a subset of Unicode and the "compose"
key. On a normal PC keyboard, you have to make a compose key out
of something that's there already, like the right ctrl key, or the right
Microsoft key, which is seldom used even in Windows. This is too
detailed to get into here--you need to do a bit of Googling. Basically,
it allows you to hit (for example) rt ctrl, then, quickly, two keys which
intuitively make the foreign character. Thus the ñ can be made by
rt-ctrl, the n then ~. Ä by rt-ctrl, then A then ". The French ç by
rt-ctrl then c then , and you can make ß, the German ess-tset character
by rt-ctrl ss. Similarly the ¢ sign with / and c, the € with = and e, and
on and on. (The order of the 2 keypresses is not important.) The exact
same arrangement works in Windows and Linux, but I understand that
Macs have a somewhat different setup. You will have to make your
compose key in each operating system you use--if you have 2 Linuxes
dual booting, you'll have to do it twice, etc. The arrangement to get
the characters in Windows is from a tsr program called All-Chars.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley


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Old 01-04-2011, 08:07 PM
David Jardine
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 03:44:13PM -0500, Doug wrote:
> >
> There's a better way. It uses a subset of Unicode and the "compose"
> key. On a normal PC keyboard, you have to make a compose key out
> of something that's there already, like the right ctrl key, or the right
> Microsoft key, which is seldom used even in Windows. This is too
> detailed to get into here--you need to do a bit of Googling. Basically,
> it allows you to hit (for example) rt ctrl, then, quickly, two keys which
> intuitively make the foreign character. Thus the ñ can be made by
> rt-ctrl, the n then ~. Ä by rt-ctrl, then A then ". The French ç by
> rt-ctrl then c then , and you can make ß, the German ess-tset character
> by rt-ctrl ss. Similarly the ¢ sign with / and c, the € with = and e, and
> on and on. (The order of the 2 keypresses is not important.) The exact
> same arrangement works in Windows and Linux, but I understand that
> Macs have a somewhat different setup. You will have to make your
> compose key in each operating system you use--if you have 2 Linuxes
> dual booting, you'll have to do it twice, etc. The arrangement to get
> the characters in Windows is from a tsr program called All-Chars.

Isn't <CTRL-.> a compose key by default? It works for me and I'm sure I
never set it. Some programs may also have their own compose keys -
<CTRL-k> in vim, for example.

Cheers,
David


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Old 01-05-2011, 10:39 AM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011, Doug wrote:
> There's a better way. It uses a subset of Unicode and the "compose"
> key. On a normal PC keyboard, you have to make a compose key out

You must be joking. That will work well only if you're writing english
text, which will require the use of the compose key rarely.

Perfect dead key support is a *must* for many languages. It is a
reverse killer feature: if it is not there, it kills the product ;-)

You'll still want compose to input symbols such as "" when AltGR
doesn't provide ready access to them (or you feel easier to remember the
digraph than the AltGR keymap).

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Old 01-05-2011, 07:10 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default squeeze us-intl w/ dead keys on i386/pc/qwerty keyboard

On Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 06:39:53AM EST, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2011, Doug wrote:
> > There's a better way. It uses a subset of Unicode and the "compose"
> > key. On a normal PC keyboard, you have to make a compose key out
>
> You must be joking. That will work well only if you're writing english
> text, which will require the use of the compose key rarely.
>
> Perfect dead key support is a *must* for many languages. It is a
> reverse killer feature: if it is not there, it kills the product ;-)

Matter of preference, I would say..

The nationals of some European countries are at home with dead keys
because that's the way their keyboards are laid out, Portugal is a good
example. And then there are those countries that favor precomposed
glyphs and an additional modifier, such as Germany.

Probably one of the strengths of English as an international language is
that you can type it without any remapping on just about any keyboard
that's based on the latin alphabet.

Apart from the tiny minority who happen to be literate in two or more
languages outside English, the problem is mostly for those who need to
type another language on a standard U.S. keyboard.

And the fact that U.S. keyboards have one key less (the one at the
bottom left of the keyboard, next to Left-Shift) than European keyboards
does not make things any easier.

Personally, even though I am pretty sure that with adequate practice,
dead keys would eventually prove more efficient than using AltGr, I find
the mechanism confusing because with most text-entry systems.. you don't
see anything.. hm.. did I hit that dead key or did I miss it..? What do
I do now.. because if I hit it again, it's going to beep at me.. all
rather stressful.. :-) And continually having to hit the spacebar after
single quotes is really a pain.

As to the X Compose key, (and alter egos like Vim and GNU/screen's
digraphs), it gives you the worst possible experience: confusing like
dead keys, and impractical since one extra keystroke is required for
each combined letter. Their only good point is that the key combinations
being mnemonic in nature, you don't have to memorize key locations.

Maybe the better solution for those who program and type in English most
of the time, and only occasionally need to switch to another language is
dead keys accessible via Mod3?

Otherwise, if they really are serious about typing in half a dozen
languages, or for those who constantly need to switch between Sanskrit
and ancient Greek, the way to go is probably to acquire a 105-key
unlabeled European keyboard and toggle layouts on the fly. But even for
such tiny minorities, acquiring typing skills on different layouts
requires considerable time and effort.

cj


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