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Old 01-02-2011, 03:25 AM
Robert Braddock
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

I have a Radeon 8500 video card which I use as video-in for my computer
to act as my tv monitor. Sometime since the Summer, this has stopped
working and I am having no luck finding any helpful information by
searching. Most searches just refer to the old GATOS project, which
hasn't done anything for years, but supposedly has been rolled into
xorg's drivers.

Now, I know my card uses a "video overlay" which most tv-type programs
don't seem to care about. If I could get a /dev/video* setup with v4l
or something similar, I'd love to give that a try, but again, searches
don't flush out anything curent sounding.

I used to use GATOS's avview to open the AV-in window, but that stopped
working with X a year or so ago, at which point I went to the less
reliable but functional xawtv. That worked for a while by itself, but
then I needed to run kdetv first, and then xawtv (and then kdetv again
to shut off the audio). This was especially odd because kdetv didn't
actually ever get the actual video, but it would reliably get things
setup so xawtv could work. Xawtv still had problems, though: it would
just go blank if you resized it or made it full screen. The video would
come back if you brought up xawtv's menu, so the process became: start
kdetv, quit it, start xawtv, make it fullscreen, right click twice to
get the menu and get rid of it again, use the video, quit xawtv, start
kdetv, and finally quit it. What a mess! At least it worked, though.

Now, it seems as though my overlay device just isn't there. Kdetv says
there's no video device at all and xawtv reports "no usable video port
found".

I've looked through the xorg log, and there doesn't seem to be any kind
of error to follow up on. I haven't made any config changes since back
when it was working. All that's changed is there have been updates
installed (debian testing), but I didn't use the video-in for several
months, so I have no idea what batch of updates broke things.

So, my questions:
- Can I get a /dev/video* for the Radeon 8500 (R200) video input? How?
- Can I get directions to the best place to ask this question and get
help, if there are no answers here?
- Are there any newer or more reliable programs I could use besides
kdetv and xawtv that will work with the 8500's video overlay thing?
- What happened? How should I have found out?
- Anything else I can do, besides buying new hardware (not currently an
option)


References:
- results of "xawtv -v -2"
http://concordantthought.com/personal/robert/relay/xawtv-v-2.20110101.log
- Xorg log
http://concordantthought.com/personal/robert/relay/Xorg.0.20110101.log

Thanks for any help,
Robert


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Old 01-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 23:25:01 -0500, Robert Braddock wrote:

> I have a Radeon 8500 video card which I use as video-in for my computer
> to act as my tv monitor. Sometime since the Summer, this has stopped
> working and I am having no luck finding any helpful information by
> searching. Most searches just refer to the old GATOS project, which
> hasn't done anything for years, but supposedly has been rolled into
> xorg's drivers.

(...)

> Now, it seems as though my overlay device just isn't there. Kdetv says
> there's no video device at all and xawtv reports "no usable video port
> found".

(...)

If the card used to work and now suddenly stopped creating the "/dev/
video0" device, I would look into "dmesg" log, maybe there is any hint on
why the video device is not being created (missing module, kernel change,
firmware needed, conflicting drivers, radeon driver changes...).

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 01-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Robert Braddock
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

> > Now, it seems as though my overlay device just isn't there. Kdetv
> > says there's no video device at all and xawtv reports "no usable
> > video port found".

> If the card used to work and now suddenly stopped creating the "/dev/
> video0" device, I would look into "dmesg" log, maybe there is any hint
> on why the video device is not being created (missing module, kernel
> change, firmware needed, conflicting drivers, radeon driver
> changes...).

Sorry if it was unclear, but the video overlay thing through X/Xvideo is
different from /dev/video0. I've never had a /dev/video0 device, even
when it was working (this is why xawtv and kdetv were the only programs
that work -- they are the only ones I've found that recognize the
overlay instead of needing a /dev/video0).

I'd like to have a /dev/video0, but as I said, I have no idea how to
get that to happen, and my searches never turn up anything but old
references to GATOS. I haven't seen errors in the boot log either.

Thanks,
Robert


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Old 01-03-2011, 04:00 AM
Robert Braddock
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

On Sun, Jan 02, 2011 at 12:59:54PM -0500, Robert Braddock wrote:
> Now, it seems as though my overlay device just isn't there. Kdetv
> says there's no video device at all and xawtv reports "no usable
> video port found".

FYI, someone on the xorg list gave me a tip to put "radeon.modeset=0" on
the kernel command-line at boot. After doing that, the overlay device
is back, but kdetv and xawtv still don't work:
kdetv shows some red lines instead of video
xawtv can only show video at the default tiny window size. Any resizing
will resize the image, but be black everywhere that wasn't visible through
the default window (even if I start it with -fullscreen).

Is there any other program that understands the video overlay device
thing? Kdetv and xawtv just don't seem to prioritize working...

Can I get a /dev/video0 for a Radeon 8500's input? Xorg obviously isn't
going to bother to keep it working, and it would be really nice to be
able to use a better program than xawtv.

--
Robert


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Old 01-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 00:00:43 -0500, Robert Braddock wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 02, 2011 at 12:59:54PM -0500, Robert Braddock wrote:
>> Now, it seems as though my overlay device just isn't there. Kdetv says
>> there's no video device at all and xawtv reports "no usable video port
>> found".
>
> FYI, someone on the xorg list gave me a tip to put "radeon.modeset=0" on
> the kernel command-line at boot. After doing that, the overlay device
> is back, but kdetv and xawtv still don't work: kdetv shows some red
> lines instead of video xawtv can only show video at the default tiny
> window size. Any resizing
> will resize the image, but be black everywhere that wasn't visible
> through the default window (even if I start it with -fullscreen).

You can try with another programs to view the TV, like Videolan, Me-TV or
even Kaffeine :-?

> Is there any other program that understands the video overlay device
> thing? Kdetv and xawtv just don't seem to prioritize working...
>
> Can I get a /dev/video0 for a Radeon 8500's input? Xorg obviously isn't
> going to bother to keep it working, and it would be really nice to be
> able to use a better program than xawtv.

Maybe you card does not allow that... what tv tuner chipset has?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 01-07-2011, 03:58 AM
Robert Braddock
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

> You can try with another programs to view the TV, like Videolan, Me-TV
> or even Kaffeine :-?

I don't know how to make anything else talk to the Xvideo overlay
device. The only mentions I've found were things NOT using it, or only
using a /dev/video0 type device. Kaffeine, vlc, and me-tv don't seem to
have an obvious way to access anything other than the /dev/video0 system.

Xawtv (which is teeny and can't resize), kdetv (which can't show the
actual video) and avview (which doesn't even run anymore) are the only
things I've seen that will use the Xvideo overlay instead of requiring a
/dev/video0 device. That's why, if getting /dev/video0 for a Radeon8500
were feasible, I'd like to leave this whole weird overlay device thing
behind, like everyone else seems to have...

> > Can I get a /dev/video0 for a Radeon 8500's input? Xorg obviously
> > isn't going to bother to keep it working, and it would be really
> > nice to be able to use a better program than xawtv.
> Maybe you card does not allow that... what tv tuner chipset has?

Actually I'm trying to get the basic a/v-in to work (mainly the svideo
and rca audio inputs), not the tuner. I've kind of given up on the
tuner... It looks like the card includes such things as : FI123xx
(FI1236W) Tuner, TDA9885 Alignment-free IF-PLL, MSP34xx (MSP3445G,
MSP3430), and Rage Theatre revision 00000003, if any of that helps.

--
Robert


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Old 01-07-2011, 01:42 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Radeon 8500, kdetv, and xawtv broken - no video overlay device

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:58:47 -0500, Robert Braddock wrote:

>> You can try with another programs to view the TV, like Videolan, Me-TV
>> or even Kaffeine :-?
>
> I don't know how to make anything else talk to the Xvideo overlay
> device. The only mentions I've found were things NOT using it, or only
> using a /dev/video0 type device. Kaffeine, vlc, and me-tv don't seem to
> have an obvious way to access anything other than the /dev/video0
> system.

And mplayer or xine? :-?

> Xawtv (which is teeny and can't resize), kdetv (which can't show the
> actual video) and avview (which doesn't even run anymore) are the only
> things I've seen that will use the Xvideo overlay instead of requiring a
> /dev/video0 device. That's why, if getting /dev/video0 for a Radeon8500
> were feasible, I'd like to leave this whole weird overlay device thing
> behind, like everyone else seems to have...

I don't like to look pessimistic but maybe it's time to get a new card...

>> > Can I get a /dev/video0 for a Radeon 8500's input? Xorg obviously
>> > isn't going to bother to keep it working, and it would be really nice
>> > to be able to use a better program than xawtv.
>> Maybe you card does not allow that... what tv tuner chipset has?
>
> Actually I'm trying to get the basic a/v-in to work (mainly the svideo
> and rca audio inputs), not the tuner. I've kind of given up on the
> tuner... It looks like the card includes such things as : FI123xx
> (FI1236W) Tuner, TDA9885 Alignment-free IF-PLL, MSP34xx (MSP3445G,
> MSP3430), and Rage Theatre revision 00000003, if any of that helps.

I dunno where to start debugging this... documentation/how to for the
tv capabilities of your card seems pretty old and outdated:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI/AMD#ATI_Graphic_cards_with_TV_Tuners_and.2For_Capt ure_facilities

Hum... it's possible that you get accurate feedback from the GATOS devel
mailing list:

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.gatos.devel

At least they will be able to tell you what can you expect from your
card and if possible, how to restore the tunning facilities.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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