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Michael Fothergill 12-28-2010 06:49 PM

dumb question about blu ray drive configuration and playing blu ray movies etc....
 
Dear Debian folks,


I have been investigating the world of 3D TV and Blu ray players
etc...... *I also found a blu ray drive for a PC in a store I visited.
*Googling around seems to produce some funny results. *Some web pages
say that no OS can handle blu ray including Windows 7 even though the
drive in the store said it was Windows 7 ready and I found Microsoft
user websites with Windows users grumbling that they couldn't play blu
ray on their PCs .... *Other pages have strange hacky looking solutions posted
in them. * Yet others have ominous discussions about digital rights
management restrictions resulting in them being unusable by design
without having access to some sort of digital key that only
proprietary software would work with.

I found one site with some advice on blu ray playback (not sure about
burning a disk though) here:

http://themediaviking.com/software/bluray-linux/

In theory you ought to be able to play a movie on the PC drive and on
a new PC with an HDMI socket you could hook up to the 3D TV and watch
it not just to a monitor or VGA socket on the TV..... Panasonic have
a new 3D TV camera out which I suppose you could shoot a movie with
and then copy it to a blu ray disk in some way or other and I don't
see why it couldn't involve a PC burning it using a blu ray drive.

Can you burn blu ray disks in debian?

Sorry about the first post I sent it in before finishing by mistake.

Michael Fothergill


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Javier Vasquez 12-28-2010 10:12 PM

dumb question about blu ray drive configuration and playing blu ray movies etc....
 
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Michael Fothergill
<michael.fothergill@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ...
> Can you burn blu ray disks in debian?
>...
> Michael Fothergill

Hmm, as far as I know the original cdrecord [1] from the original
cdrtools has been advertised to burn BluRay for quiet a while now. I
don't have BluRay media, so I can't tell about BluRay, but for burning
dvds/cds I only use the original cdrecord. Bad thing debian doesn't
come with it, but to my opinion it's a nice piece of software I've
been using for more than 10 years, so I whether compile it and install
it myself, or look for debian packages outside debian repos (grml one
integrates nicely with debian, and it includes original cdrecord for
x86_32 architecture, they don't include it for x86_64)...

Graphical interfaces for cdrecord are the same ones you would expect
to work with wodim from cdrkit, though I don't use any, so I can't
recommend...

--
Javier.


[1] http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/cdrecord.html


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Roland Rosier 12-29-2010 12:12 PM

dumb question about blu ray drive configuration and playing blu ray movies etc....
 
Hello Micheal,

I have attempted to create a HTPC using Debian recently and one of the biggest problems was trying to play Blu-Ray disks.

Whilst I believe that it is possible to burn Data Only Blu-Rays on Linux using K3B, this is a different issue to burning a Video Blu-Ray that can be read by a standalone Blu-Ray player.

This is because a Blu-Ray readable by a stand-alone Blu-Ray player has to adhere to a whole set of standards that define the way that the disk is formatted.

For instance, the first issue is that playable Blu-Ray disks have to be formatted as UDF 2.5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Filesystem).* I don't know if K3B (or any other Linux tool) can create UDF 2.5 filesystems.* My K3B (admittedly on SuSE) doesn't have options to select UDF filesystem type and I suspect it would create an earlier version of UDF.

If you have a PC connected to your TV, I might suggest that your easiest option (at this point in time) would be to create Data Blu-Rays with your home-made video in a format of your choice.* Then play your home-made video from your Data Blu-Rays via your PC on your TV with the player of your choice.

You can indeed connect your PC to your TV via an HDMI lead if your TV has an HDMI input and your PC has a video output which is either HDMI or convertible to HDMI.* A DVI-D connector should be convertible to HDMI, although you might not have the Audio channel that is normally carried in the TDMS channel on HDMI.* However, I do have a recent nVidia standalone PCI-Express card and a recent ATI on-board graphics card which do output HDMI-compatible / HDMI-direct signals which contain the audio channel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface).

Another possible option would be if you have a newer TV which can understand one of the uPnP/DLNA protocols.* If you set your PC up as a server with a uPnP/DLNA protocol that your TV can understand and also able to serve the video in a format that your TV can understand, you might be able to get your TV to play the movie itself, reading the movie from your PC.* However, my TV can't do this and I have read of people having problems trying this with TV manufacturers trying to "extend" the standard or otherwise make it not-fully compatible with the official standard.

As far as playing mainstream Blu-Ray disks on a Linux system (or even a PC in general) there are a whole host of issues to overcome.

Basically <rant mode="on">the Blu-Ray manufacturers have become so concerned with preventing the piracy of their disks that they have decided to prevent legitimate owners from being able to watch the Blu-Ray disks they own on the hardware they also own.</rant>.

When I was researching HTPC on Windows, I noticed that quite a few pre-built systems seemed to include a tool from a company called Slysoft (http://www.slysoft.com/).* I get the impression from the posts I saw that even people who buy a Blu-Ray PC player, an HDCP-capable graphics card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection) and an HDCP-capable Monitor and/or TV are prevented from playing their Blu-Ray disks by the encryption.* The Slysoft program provides on-the-fly decryption to allow Windows users to watch their Blu-Ray disks.* Sadly I believe that it only works on Windows.

Another Windows tool is DVDFab (http://www.dvdfab.com/).* I believe that it works by creating a decrypted copy of the Blu-Ray (either the whole image or individual movie files) on your harddrive.* I also read that it can be made to work with Wine.

A Linux tool is dumphd, which I believe also creates a decrypted copy of the Blu-ray.* This is available in Debian Testing/Squeeze.* Sadly this tool can only decrypt early Blu-Ray disks.* I think I read somewhere that it will only decrypt those with MKBv from 1-10.* The latest disks are up to something like 16 or 17.

Even if you can decrypt your Blu-Ray, you then have to play the Movie.* The video can be encrypted with 3 formats:* MPEG-2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC and Microsoft's VC-1.* Fortunately I believe that MPlayer, VideoLan, Xine and MythTV can play all of these.

You also have to figure out what file is the main movie file.* On older Blu-Rays I believe that these tended to be the biggest .m2ts file in the BDMV/STREAM directory.* On newer Blu-Rays, this might not be the case.* It is possible that as an added complication, the movie may be split into multiple small files which are all bound together by a playlist in the PLAYLIST subdirectory.* I am not aware that any current Linux tools can either read the playlist files or can use the playlist to re-assemble the .m2ts files.

It is possible that MakeMKV (http://www.makemkv.com/) is able to solve all of these issues by transcoding the Blu-Ray into a MKV format container.* I did read somewhere that it can run on Wine.* I don't know if it can re-assemble a split movie from the playlist.* However, I have read that MPlayer, VideoLan and Xine can understand MKV format containers.

In summary I would say the following:

Playing Commercial DVDs in Linux seems to be relatively pain-free.* Many players can understand the whole DVD structure and/or individual files within.* However I have read that a newer type of encryption is appearing on DVDs, but I haven't seen it personally.

Playing Commercial Blu-Rays in Linux seems to be a hit-and-miss challenge.* The encryption keeps changing so what works with the Blu-Ray you buy today might not work with the Blu-Ray you buy tomorrow.* I don't know of any Linux player that can understand the whole Blu-Ray structure and it is possible that split-playlists might defeat Linux players.* There was even some talk online of key-revocation which might mean that your Blu-Ray player might stop playing a Blu-Ray that it played previously.

It might be worth sticking with DVDs until Blu-Rays are playable on Linux without any hassle.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,
Roland Rosier


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Eduardo M KALINOWSKI 12-29-2010 01:08 PM

dumb question about blu ray drive configuration and playing blu ray movies etc....
 
On Qua, 29 Dez 2010, Roland Rosier wrote:
It is possible that MakeMKV (http://www.makemkv.com/) is able to
solve all of these issues by transcoding the Blu-Ray into a MKV
format container.* I did read somewhere that it can run on Wine.* I
don't know if it can re-assemble a split movie from the playlist.*
However, I have read that MPlayer, VideoLan and Xine can understand
MKV format containers.


There's a version of MakeMKV for Linux. It's not free as in speech,
but it's free as in beer, at least for the moment.



--
The most disagreeable thing that your worst enemy says to your face does
not approach what your best friends say behind your back.
-- Alfred De Musset

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@kalinowski.com.br


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Michael Fothergill 12-29-2010 01:51 PM

dumb question about blu ray drive configuration and playing blu ray movies etc....
 
Thanks a lot for enlightening me about this................

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Roland Rosier <rrdebian@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hello Micheal,
>
> I have attempted to create a HTPC using Debian recently and one of the biggest problems was trying to play Blu-Ray disks.
>
> Whilst I believe that it is possible to burn Data Only Blu-Rays on Linux using K3B, this is a different issue to burning a Video Blu-Ray that can be read by a standalone Blu-Ray player.
>
> This is because a Blu-Ray readable by a stand-alone Blu-Ray player has to adhere to a whole set of standards that define the way that the disk is formatted.

I guess it depends what you would be trying to achieve here. If you
were trying to produce your own film and then distribute it to the
world in general who mostly owned Blu ray players connected to their
HDTVs then this would not work I suppose.....
>
> For instance, the first issue is that playable Blu-Ray disks have to be formatted as UDF 2.5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Filesystem).* I don't know if K3B (or any other Linux tool) can create UDF 2.5 filesystems.* My K3B (admittedly on SuSE) doesn't have options to select UDF filesystem type and I suspect it would create an earlier version of UDF.
>
> If you have a PC connected to your TV, I might suggest that your easiest option (at this point in time) would be to create Data Blu-Rays with your home-made video in a format of your choice.* Then play your home-made video from your Data Blu-Rays via your PC on your TV with the player of your choice.

>From my point of view if you bought blu ray player it costs about the
same as buying a blu ray PC drive. The PC drive can record and play
back..... So at a dumb level I thought that it seemed far better
value for money to buy the PC drive and have it play commercially
released movies through the TV and burn movies you might have produced
yourself in a format that others could also playback (more sensibly on
their PC blu ray drives connected to their HDTVs not on a blu ray
player - I would dispense with the blu ray player altogether). But I
now see from reading this that there all these anti pirating
strategies that make such a simple approach untenable it would seem.
A blu ray disk recorder seems to be pretty expensive.......

> You can indeed connect your PC to your TV via an HDMI lead if your TV has an HDMI input and your PC has a video output which is either HDMI or convertible to HDMI.* A DVI-D connector should be convertible to HDMI, although you might not have the Audio channel that is normally carried in the TDMS channel on HDMI.* However, I do have a recent nVidia standalone PCI-Express card and a recent ATI on-board graphics card which do output HDMI-compatible / HDMI-direct signals which contain the audio channel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface).
>
> Another possible option would be if you have a newer TV which can understand one of the uPnP/DLNA protocols.* If you set your PC up as a server with a uPnP/DLNA protocol that your TV can understand and also able to serve the video in a format that your TV can understand, you might be able to get your TV to play the movie itself, reading the movie from your PC.* However, my TV can't do this and I have read of people having problems trying this with TV manufacturers trying to "extend" the standard or otherwise make it not-fully compatible with the official standard.
>
In principle this says to me that having the blu ray drive in the PC
playing the film is superior than using a blu ray player because I
assume the player doesn't use these protocols (but maybe I am wrong
here) this is an extra sophistication you get for the same financial
outlay.

> As far as playing mainstream Blu-Ray disks on a Linux system (or even a PC in general) there are a whole host of issues to overcome.
>
>
> In summary I would say the following:
>
> Playing Commercial DVDs in Linux seems to be relatively pain-free.* Many players can understand the whole DVD structure and/or individual files within.* However I have read that a newer type of encryption is appearing on DVDs, but I haven't seen it personally.
>
> Playing Commercial Blu-Rays in Linux seems to be a hit-and-miss challenge.* The encryption keeps changing so what works with the Blu-Ray you buy today might not work with the Blu-Ray you buy tomorrow.* I don't know of any Linux player that can understand the whole Blu-Ray structure and it is possible that split-playlists might defeat Linux players.* There was even some talk online of key-revocation which might mean that your Blu-Ray player might stop playing a Blu-Ray that it played previously.
>
> It might be worth sticking with DVDs until Blu-Rays are playable on Linux without any hassle.

It is a shame that this is such an obstacle course. It seems to be a
story of taking something simple and making it unnecessarily
complicated and labyrinthine or however you spell that word. I
personally like to have the DVD set for each new release of Debian
because it does install faster than doing a net install especially if
your internet connection is busy and if it goes down you can get deb
files from the disks...... But now the DVD set is getting pretty big
so a Blu ray set for Debian would be good I think any way.........

Regards

Michael

>
> I hope that this helps.
>
> Regards,
> Roland Rosier
>
>
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