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S Mathias 12-25-2010 01:44 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this list :]:

################################################## ############################################

Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:

straight cabling:
A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown

could be eg.: like this??
A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange
B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange

################################################## ############################################

Q2) again cabling.. i know what is the color order of straight and crossover cabling. BUT: what are the color orders, when i need to create physically two separated networks?

568B; straight; nic to switch:
A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
----------
568A; crossover; nic to nic: [it's not so important about from ~2005]:
switch the pairs: 1&2 with 3&6 on one side:
A side: white-green, green, white-orange, blue, white-blue, orange, white-brown, brown
B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
----------
one cable, two straight networks:
A side:
I.:
II.:
B side:
I.:
II.:
----------
one cable, two crossover networks:
A side:
I.:
II.:
B side:
I.:
II.:
----------
one cable, one straight and one crossover network:
A side [straight]:
I.:
II.:
B side [crossover]:
I.:
II.:
----------
one cable, one crossover and one straight network:
A side [crossover]:
I.:
II.:
B side [straight]:
I.:
II.:

################################################## ############################################

Thank you for any pointings, links, or specific answers.

Happy Christmas!



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"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." 12-25-2010 03:37 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On Saturday 25 December 2010 08:42:52 S Mathias wrote:
> Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this
> list :]:
>
> ################################################## #########################
> ###################
>
> Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:
>
> straight cabling:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green,
> white-brown, brown B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue,
> white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
>
> could be eg.: like this??
> A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue,
> white-brown, orange B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green,
> white-green, blue, white-brown, orange

Depends. Firstly, non-standard order might confuse the heck out of other
techs. More important, if you are just installing the tips and the majority
of the cable is pre-made, they might be using a twisting/braiding order that
minimizes noise where using the standard cable ordering. Naively, there's no
problem; and using a non-standard order should work, but using the standard
order is well-advised.

If you are twisting/braiding your own cable, the best ordering is based how
you twist/braid the wires.

> ################################################## #########################
> ###################
>
> Q2) again cabling.. i know what is the color order of straight and
> crossover cabling. BUT: what are the color orders, when i need to create
> physically two separated networks?

I don't recommend combining more than the 8 wires in a single cable when doing
ethernet. Just run multiple cables and bind them together.

Cross-talk between cables is less of an issue than cross-talk between wires in
a single cable. However, you are correct that would be minimized by running
all the wires in a single cable, IF you use the correct braiding/twisting
order through the length of the cable. I know the generic algorithm for
braiding N straight wires in a round cable involves primitive roots of the
modular ring N, but I don't know how to practically apply that to braiding my
own cable.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

Arun Khan 12-25-2010 03:39 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 8:12 PM, S Mathias <smathias1972@yahoo.com> wrote:

Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this list :]:



################################################## ############################################



Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:



straight cabling:

A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown

B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown



could be eg.: like this??

A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange

B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange

Although logically it appears that the wiring should work, *I suggest you stick with the official 568A/B scheme, especially if you are using Gigabit fabric (all four TPs are used)

Pls. see*
<http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_lan.htm><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_crossover_cable>
HTH-- Arun Khan
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Mark Neidorff 12-25-2010 03:47 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On Saturday 25 December 2010 09:42 am, S Mathias wrote:
> Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this
> list :]:
>
> ################################################## #########################
>###################
>
> Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:
>
> straight cabling:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green,
> white-brown, brown B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue,
> white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
>
> could be eg.: like this??
> A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue,
> white-brown, orange B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green,
> white-green, blue, white-brown, orange
>
> ################################################## #########################
>###################

The order was determined to minimize cross-talk on the adjacent wires. Your
best bet is to stay with the standard. So, yes, the order is important.

>
> Q2) again cabling.. i know what is the color order of straight and
> crossover cabling. BUT: what are the color orders, when i need to create
> physically two separated networks?
>
> 568B; straight; nic to switch:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green,
> white-brown, brown B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue,
> white-blue, green, white-brown, brown ----------
> 568A; crossover; nic to nic: [it's not so important about from ~2005]:
> switch the pairs: 1&2 with 3&6 on one side:
> A side: white-green, green, white-orange, blue, white-blue, orange,
> white-brown, brown B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue,
> white-blue, green, white-brown, brown ----------
> one cable, two straight networks:
> A side:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, two crossover networks:
> A side:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, one straight and one crossover network:
> A side [straight]:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side [crossover]:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, one crossover and one straight network:
> A side [crossover]:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side [straight]:
> I.:
> II.:
>
Please explain what you are trying to accomplish and at what network speeds.
Off the top of my head, 10baseT networks used 4 wires and 100baseT used all 8
wires. If you are trying for 100baseT speeds, you have to use all 8 wires.

Did you notice how difficult the kind of cabling you want is to find? There
is a reason for that.

Mark


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John R Pierce 12-25-2010 04:27 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On 12/25/10 6:42 AM, S Mathias wrote:
> Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this list :]:
>
> ################################################## ############################################
>
> Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:
>
> straight cabling:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
>
> could be eg.: like this??
> A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange
> B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange

no. its critical that the pairs be maintained. ethernet uses
differential signalling on pairs. whote/orange and orange/white are a
twisted pair, as is each other combination of white/color and
color/white. the longer the cable, the more critical this becomes (eg,
you could perhaps get away with it on a 2 meter patch cord, but a 30
meter run in a wall would most certainly have crosstalk problems).

> ################################################## ############################################
>
> Q2) again cabling.. i know what is the color order of straight and crossover cabling. BUT: what are the color orders, when i need to create physically two separated networks?

terrible idea. gigE uses all 4 pairs for a single connection anyways,
so you *can't* double up on a patch cord.

> 568B; straight; nic to switch:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
> ----------
> 568A; crossover; nic to nic: [it's not so important about from ~2005]:
> switch the pairs: 1&2 with 3&6 on one side:
> A side: white-green, green, white-orange, blue, white-blue, orange, white-brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown


568A and B aren't straight vs crossover. they are simply two different
schemes for the order of the pairs to the connector. basically, they
swap the green and orange pairs.

I would stick with T568A


> ----------
> one cable, two straight networks:
> A side:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, two crossover networks:
> A side:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, one straight and one crossover network:
> A side [straight]:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side [crossover]:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, one crossover and one straight network:
> A side [crossover]:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side [straight]:
> I.:
> II.:

thats giving me a headache just thinking about it. DO NOT PUT TWO NICs
ON ONE RH45 CONNECTOR

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David Christensen 12-25-2010 06:04 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
S Mathias wrote:

Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:


Yes. Conductor colors and pin terminations are per the standard
TIA/EIA-568-B.1-2000:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568-B


Most factory-made Ethernet patch cables I've seen use T568B on both
ends. That's how I make my cables.



Crossover cables use T568B on one end and T568A on the other.



Q2) again cabling.. i know what is the color order of straight and crossover cabling. BUT: what are the color orders, when i need to create physically two separated networks?


Use a separate cable for each network connection.


I buy Category 5e riser cable for use with Fast and/or Gigabit Ethernet.


You will want a crimp tool, connectors, and cable tester. My local home
improvement store (Home Depot) carries products made by Ideal:


http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=30-696

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=85-396

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=62-200


The Ideal LinkMaster Tester remote unit includes a useful T568A and
T568B wiring diagram printed on its face.



HTH,

David


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ka1ifq 12-25-2010 06:19 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
Try a google search!

http://www.google.com/images?q=network+cable+pinout&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-
US:official&client=firefox-
a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=tUMWTbanHoKKlwfImfnZCw&sa=X&oi=im age_result_group&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CCwQsAQwAQ &biw=1280&bih=804




> Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this
list :]:
>
>
################################################## ############################################
>
> Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:
>
> straight cabling:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-
brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-
brown, brown
>
> could be eg.: like this??
> A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-
brown, orange
> B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-
brown, orange
>
>
################################################## ############################################
>
> Q2) again cabling.. i know what is the color order of straight and crossover
cabling. BUT: what are the color orders, when i need to create physically two
separated networks?
>
> 568B; straight; nic to switch:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-
brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-
brown, brown
> ----------
> 568A; crossover; nic to nic: [it's not so important about from ~2005]:
> switch the pairs: 1&2 with 3&6 on one side:
> A side: white-green, green, white-orange, blue, white-blue, orange, white-
brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-
brown, brown
> ----------
> one cable, two straight networks:
> A side:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, two crossover networks:
> A side:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, one straight and one crossover network:
> A side [straight]:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side [crossover]:
> I.:
> II.:
> ----------
> one cable, one crossover and one straight network:
> A side [crossover]:
> I.:
> II.:
> B side [straight]:
> I.:
> II.:
>
>
################################################## ############################################
>
> Thank you for any pointings, links, or specific answers.
>
> Happy Christmas!
>
>
>
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> users@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Sent from my Linux Desktop.
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12-25-2010 06:20 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 11:47:12 -0500
Mark Neidorff <mark@neidorff.com> wrote:

>
> The order was determined to minimize cross-talk on the adjacent
> wires. Your best bet is to stay with the standard. So, yes, the
> order is important.

yep, I know from personal experience that 100 won't work if you don't
use the proper order :-(


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Ryan Wagoner 12-25-2010 06:29 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 12:27 PM, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:
> On 12/25/10 6:42 AM, S Mathias wrote:
>
> 568A and B aren't straight vs crossover. they are simply two different
> schemes for the order of the pairs to the connector. basically, they
> swap the green and orange pairs.
>
> I would stick with T568A
>
>

I commonly see jacks wired to T568B standard. I've seen some CAT6
jacks with only the colors shown for T568B. The coloring for T568A is
backwards compatible with 1 or 2 line phone connectors.

Ryan
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Mikkel 12-25-2010 07:32 PM

2 Ethernet cabling question
 
On 12/25/2010 08:44 AM, S Mathias wrote:
> Two questions that was not always clear for me [sorry for posting to this list :]:
>
> ################################################## ############################################
>
> Q1) when cabling, is the color order important? like:
>
> straight cabling:
> A side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
> B side: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown, brown
>
> could be eg.: like this??
> A side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange
> B side: white-orange, brown, white-blue, green, white-green, blue, white-brown, orange
>

If you look at the cable, you will see that the wires are twisted in
pairs. White-orange with orange, white-blue with blue, etc. For
noise cancellation, it is important that you use pairs for each data
path. On a short cable, you can get away with out doing this, but it
is not a good idea. Each pair also has a different twist ratio -
twists/inch. This helps prevent them from interfering with each other.

If you put a good cable tester on the cable, it will tell you if you
do not have pairs matched up. Some can also tell you if you have the
pairs switched. They can also tell you the length of the run, and
all kinds of information about the quality of that you can expect
from the run of cable. This gets important when you get into longer
runs.

Part of the color pattern is a legacy from 2 pair telephone cables.
the center pair was blue and while-blue and the pair outside of that
was white-green and green. (reversed of the center pair.) Though not
a good practice, it is possible to have a phone signal on the
blue/blue-white pair while also using it as a data cable. I leave
the signal quality of this combination to your imagination.

One last note - when you get into cables with more then 5 pair, the
background color changes from white. If my foggy brain is working
correctly, then next set uses red. (Oh yes - the 5th pair is
white-violet, violet.) You also get a red stripe on the colors like
the colored stripe you observed on the white wires. So you would get
a red with an orange tracer paired with a orange with a red tracer.

One additional tidbit - there are an A and B configuration. We are
using the B configuration.

Mikkel
--

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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