FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 11-12-2010, 09:09 AM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

Good day.

I have some trouble with growing number of

Load_Cycle_Count

parameter of my HDD. And the

Temperature_Celsius

as well. - Shown by smartctl utility.

So, my question is, How I can stop it spin down? - As I do understand,
w/ the help of sdparm utility (it is SATA drive).

Or may returm to the manufacturer defaults of the drive if any? - As I
tried before to play w/ laptop-mode-tools package, and I did not like
the results.

Or where I can look for a utility that spins it down? In the BIOS I saw
no option for spinning it down - so it is out of culprit list.


Thank You for Your time.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4cdd1251.52790e0a.7ba8.ffffa0d6@mx.google.com">htt p://lists.debian.org/4cdd1251.52790e0a.7ba8.ffffa0d6@mx.google.com
 
Old 11-12-2010, 12:04 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:09:08 +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

> Good day.
>
> I have some trouble with growing number of
>
> Load_Cycle_Count
>
> parameter of my HDD. And the
>
> Temperature_Celsius
>
> as well. - Shown by smartctl utility.

And what are those "offending" values"? :-)

> So, my question is, How I can stop it spin down? - As I do understand,
> w/ the help of sdparm utility (it is SATA drive).
>
> Or may returm to the manufacturer defaults of the drive if any? - As I
> tried before to play w/ laptop-mode-tools package, and I did not like
> the results.
>
> Or where I can look for a utility that spins it down? In the BIOS I saw
> no option for spinning it down - so it is out of culprit list.

There some documents about that (load_cycle_count), you can review them
here:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Laptop#Hard_drive_spin_down_problem
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695

As per temperature, some hard disk manufacturers read raw values and not
normalized, just be sure you are reading/interpreting in the right manner:

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/smartmontools/wiki/FAQ#Whyismydisktemperaturesreportedbysmartdas150Ce lsius

Besides, is hard disk the only device getting warm? Maybe you are facing
a general cooling problem? :-?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.11.12.13.04.14@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.11.12.13.04.14@gmail.com
 
Old 11-12-2010, 04:35 PM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

Thank You for Your time and answer, Camaleón:

> And what are those "offending" values"? :-)

I will not bring them here - so You may not say, Ah it is ok - there
are even worse cases do exist! - For what is ok for one - not so for
another. I just saw better values - and want to restore it - before
my experiments w/ laptop-mode-tools.

> There some documents about that (load_cycle_count), you can review
> them here:
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Laptop#Hard_drive_spin_down_problem
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695

Could You please share w/ me how You found those? - I would like to
have some googling search study - for I was searching before giving my
question here - but it did help me a little. I was looking for the
parameter name itself, sdparm, HDD life lengthening in general.

> Besides, is hard disk the only device getting warm? Maybe you are
> facing a general cooling problem? :-?

Yes, it is w/ HDD only - but it is not so much w/ temperature my
worries are as for spinning down.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4cdd7aeb.ce7c0e0a.1231.ffffbe99@mx.google.com">htt p://lists.debian.org/4cdd7aeb.ce7c0e0a.1231.ffffbe99@mx.google.com
 
Old 11-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 00:35:31 +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

> Thank You for Your time and answer, Camaleón:
>
>> And what are those "offending" values"? :-)
>
> I will not bring them here

Ouch!

> - so You may not say, Ah it is ok - there are
> even worse cases do exist! - For what is ok for one - not so for
> another. I just saw better values - and want to restore it - before
> my experiments w/ laptop-mode-tools.

Okay, okay... I know comparisons can -sometimes- be counterproductive but
most of the time help a lot :-)

>> There some documents about that (load_cycle_count), you can review them
>> here:
>>
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/
Laptop#Hard_drive_spin_down_problem
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695
>
> Could You please share w/ me how You found those? - I would like to have
> some googling search study - for I was searching before giving my
> question here - but it did help me a little. I was looking for the
> parameter name itself, sdparm, HDD life lengthening in general.

X-)

Well, no "black magic"... I was aware of the problem (maybe I read about
that behaviour in another mailing list or just noticed via RSS, anyway,
it was "old news" for me -it was noticeable in other distros, BTW-).

For instance:

https://encrypted.google.com/search?complete=0&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=839 &q=load_cycle_count&btnG=Google+Search
https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&biw=1280&bih=839&q=load_cy cle_count+smartctl&btnG=Search

Can give you a start point for digging.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.11.12.18.08.38@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.11.12.18.08.38@gmail.com
 
Old 11-12-2010, 07:19 PM
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Sthu Deus wrote:
> I have some trouble with growing number of
>
> Load_Cycle_Count
>
> parameter of my HDD. And the

Tell the HD to stop unloading its heads, and to stop spinning down (it
*has* to unload heads when it will spin down). It will increase power
consumption, and it will make you more vulnerable to head crashes (while
unloaded, the heads are far more resistant to vibration). OTOH it will
increase the HD lifetime, as loading/unloading heads slowly damage the
head assembly.

Usually, hdparm -B and hdparm -S can do it. The BIOS might fight
against you and might set it back behind your back on reboot,
suspend/resume, etc.

> Temperature_Celsius

Get better cooling. If it is impossible, well, there is nothing you can
do other than stop giving the disk so much work to do until it cools
down.

> So, my question is, How I can stop it spin down? - As I do understand,
> w/ the help of sdparm utility (it is SATA drive).

Use hdparm.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20101112201926.GD12287@khazad-dum.debian.net">http://lists.debian.org/20101112201926.GD12287@khazad-dum.debian.net
 
Old 11-12-2010, 07:21 PM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

Thank You for Your time and answer, Camaleón:

> Okay, okay... I know comparisons can -sometimes- be counterproductive
> but most of the time help a lot :-)

Well. - No comparisons!

Though w/ temperature it seems things got normal again - so no question
here any more for now at least.

But w/ the HDD head parking it is still an issue, currently it is:

193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 080 080 000 Old_age
Always - 204131

and it grows about 1 time per 30 minutes.

> Well, no "black magic"... I was aware of the problem (maybe I read
> about that behaviour in another mailing list or just noticed via RSS,
> anyway, it was "old news" for me -it was noticeable in other distros,
> BTW-).

I was also reading about ubuntu's issue on this how it was spinning
down HDDs exceedingly often thus reducing its lives...

> For instance:
>
> https://encrypted.google.com/search?complete=0&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=839 &q=load_cycle_count&btnG=Google+Search
> https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&biw=1280&bih=839&q=load_cy cle_count+smartctl&btnG=Search

Thank You again for this.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4cdda1e6.d07b0e0a.1d54.ffffc579@mx.google.com">htt p://lists.debian.org/4cdda1e6.d07b0e0a.1d54.ffffc579@mx.google.com
 
Old 11-12-2010, 08:47 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 03:21:52 +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

> Thank You for Your time and answer, Camaleón:
>
>> Okay, okay... I know comparisons can -sometimes- be counterproductive
>> but most of the time help a lot :-)
>
> Well. - No comparisons!

Pardon me... I couldn't resist O:-)

> Though w/ temperature it seems things got normal again - so no question
> here any more for now at least.
>
> But w/ the HDD head parking it is still an issue, currently it is:
>
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 080 080 000 Old_age Always
> - 204131
>
> and it grows about 1 time per 30 minutes.

JFYI (from my notebook):


9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 049 049 000 Old_age Always - 20456
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 074 074 000 Old_age Always - 261161
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 37 (Lifetime Min/Max 21/52)


All that attributes are tagged as "old_age" not "pre-fail" which is soothing.

Note that the laptop has counted almost 2 years of "power on" (although
is indeed 4-5 years old but true is that is not always "on").

>> Well, no "black magic"... I was aware of the problem (maybe I read
>> about that behaviour in another mailing list or just noticed via RSS,
>> anyway, it was "old news" for me -it was noticeable in other distros,
>> BTW-).
>
> I was also reading about ubuntu's issue on this how it was spinning down
> HDDs exceedingly often thus reducing its lives...

There was a Debian bug report tracking this problem:

acpi-support: excessively load cycles some hard drives
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=448673

I would carefully read the comments in there before making any change.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.11.12.21.47.07@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.11.12.21.47.07@gmail.com
 
Old 11-13-2010, 02:23 PM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

Thank You for Your time and answer, Camaleón:

> JFYI (from my notebook):
>
>
> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 049 049 000 Old_age
> Always - 20456 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 074
> 074 000 Old_age Always - 261161 194
> Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 000 Old_age
> Always - 37 (Lifetime Min/Max 21/52)

From here

http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-laptop/230272-load_cycle_count-600000-bad.html

if I have learned the truth, spinning up/down is not shown by
Load_Cycle_Count parameter - but by Start_Stop_Count - in which case I
have not to worry, for it stands the same while running.

But it is bad that it loads the head all the time. - Though I do not
know if it worth (I think it does as my computer is on sure surface) -
to tune it so that it will be flying all the time, or it is unwise?


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4cdead75.ce7c0e0a.1231.ffffeb5d@mx.google.com">htt p://lists.debian.org/4cdead75.ce7c0e0a.1231.ffffeb5d@mx.google.com
 
Old 11-13-2010, 03:50 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Load_Cycle_Count to stop growing.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:23:09 +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

> Thank You for Your time and answer, Camaleón:
>
>> JFYI (from my notebook):
>>
>>
>> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 049 049 000 Old_age Always
>> - 20456 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 074 074 000
>> Old_age Always - 261161 194 Temperature_Celsius
>> 0x0022 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 37 (Lifetime
>> Min/Max 21/52)
>
> From here
>
> http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-laptop/230272-
load_cycle_count-600000-bad.html
>
> if I have learned the truth, spinning up/down is not shown by
> Load_Cycle_Count parameter - but by Start_Stop_Count - in which case I
> have not to worry, for it stands the same while running.

Well... in fact that SMART value (load_cycle_count) is what you think:

***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

193, C1, Load Cycle Count, Load/Unload Cycle Count (Fujitsu), Lower
Count of load/unload cycles into head landing zone position.[14]

The typical lifetime rating for laptop (2.5-in) hard drives is 300,000 to
600,000 load cycles.[15] Some laptop drives are programmed to unload the
heads whenever there has not been any activity for about five seconds.
[16] Many Linux installations write to the file system a few times a
minute in the background.[17] As a result, there may be 100 or more load
cycles per hour, and the load cycle rating may be exceeded in less than a
year.[18]



4 04 Start/Stop Count
A tally of spindle start/stop cycles. The spindle turns on, and hence the
count is increased, both when the hard disk is turned on after having
before been turned entirely off (disconnected from power source) and when
the hard disk returns from having previously been put to sleep mode.[11]
***

Good, bad...? Who knows. Nowadays every hard disk manufacturer applies
different strategies within the hard disk firmware for power savings.
Note that "start/stop count" parameter does not have a "best rating"
value (nor lower/higher are better, is just an "informative" field).

SMART test has to be interpreted in whole (there are values that are more
important than others) but I would not care much if there is no other
sign indicating that something wrong is goin to happen.

> But it is bad that it loads the head all the time. - Though I do not
> know if it worth (I think it does as my computer is on sure surface) -
> to tune it so that it will be flying all the time, or it is unwise?

I would contact your hard disk manufacturer and ask about this value (if
you provide them the full SMART test results, better). They will tell you
if there is is something to worry about or if this is just the normal
behaviour.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.11.13.16.50.41@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.11.13.16.50.41@gmail.com
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 08:59 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org