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Old 11-05-2010, 02:18 PM
John Hasler
 
Default A question for the list:

Drew writes:
> Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid.

Good point. Also, don't feel that you should "track" Unstable. Upgrade
individual packages as needed and do an occasional dist-upgrade if you
feel the need to clean things up.
--
John Hasler


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Old 11-05-2010, 02:44 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default A question for the list:

On Vi, 05 nov 10, 10:18:04, John Hasler wrote:
> Drew writes:
> > Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid.
>
> Good point. Also, don't feel that you should "track" Unstable. Upgrade
> individual packages as needed and do an occasional dist-upgrade if you
> feel the need to clean things up.

Still, upgrading too seldom can make the upgrade more painful, even for
testing. YMMV, of course.

Regards,
Andrei
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:54 PM
ZephyrQ
 
Default A question for the list:

Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Vi, 05 nov 10, 10:18:04, John Hasler wrote:
>> Drew writes:
>>> Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid.
>> Good point. Also, don't feel that you should "track" Unstable. Upgrade
>> individual packages as needed and do an occasional dist-upgrade if you
>> feel the need to clean things up.
>
> Still, upgrading too seldom can make the upgrade more painful, even for
> testing. YMMV, of course.

I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month? (I know that my
MMV, but if I start playing with either testing or unstable, I don't
want to get into a problem/find fix/fix lather/rinse/repeat cycle too
often).


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Old 11-05-2010, 02:55 PM
Michal
 
Default A question for the list:

On 05/11/10 02:50, ZephyrQ wrote:

If you could not/did not use Debian (either Lenny, Squeeze, or Sid),
which other distribution would you use and why?


Since I don't use debian for everything and it depends what I'm doing, I
can't really answer that. For firewalls, load balancers, routers (where
I'm not using Cisco et al) I use OpenBSD. Some webservers and such like
are also OpenBSD. Desktop is a mix of debian and windows, I use windows
for games as not all games work under wine etc plus you get better
performance using latest nvidia drivers and windows nativly, in general
(Linux plays games alot better recently, admittedly, but when you want
max settings and max FPS, I just find it doesn't cut it for me).


Linux is good for high memory systems and where you need SMP which
OpenBSD doesn't do well. But essentially, I believe OpenBSD is a lot
better for more things


FreeBSD has ZFS support so that's always around and I think ZFS is
pretty good!!!




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Old 11-05-2010, 03:12 PM
Alan Ianson
 
Default A question for the list:

On Fri November 5 2010 08:54:23 am ZephyrQ wrote:
> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Vi, 05 nov 10, 10:18:04, John Hasler wrote:
> >> Drew writes:
> >>> Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid.
> >>
> >> Good point. Also, don't feel that you should "track" Unstable. Upgrade
> >> individual packages as needed and do an occasional dist-upgrade if you
> >> feel the need to clean things up.
> >
> > Still, upgrading too seldom can make the upgrade more painful, even for
> > testing. YMMV, of course.
>
> I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
> problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
> have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month? (I know that my
> MMV, but if I start playing with either testing or unstable, I don't
> want to get into a problem/find fix/fix lather/rinse/repeat cycle too
> often).

I have not experienced any downtime with squeeze or sid. At times there are
bugs that are usually minor. There isn't much to do but wait for the package
to be updated. That doesn't take long usually, in sid packages can be updated
frequently. Packages have to live in sid for 10 days without rc bugs in order
to move into testing so the software in squeeze has had some testing and it
will take longer for buggy packages to be fixed and make the transition to
testing.

If anything is going to happen it will happen in testing/unstable so buyer
beware


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Old 11-05-2010, 03:19 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default A question for the list:

On Vi, 05 nov 10, 10:54:23, ZephyrQ wrote:
> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Vi, 05 nov 10, 10:18:04, John Hasler wrote:
> >> Drew writes:
> >>> Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid.
> >> Good point. Also, don't feel that you should "track" Unstable. Upgrade
> >> individual packages as needed and do an occasional dist-upgrade if you
> >> feel the need to clean things up.
> >
> > Still, upgrading too seldom can make the upgrade more painful, even for
> > testing. YMMV, of course.
>
> I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
> problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
> have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month? (I know that my
> MMV, but if I start playing with either testing or unstable, I don't
> want to get into a problem/find fix/fix lather/rinse/repeat cycle too
> often).

I don't recall the last time sid was broken so that manual intervention
was needed to get the system running, but individual applications can
have annoying bugs.

Regards,
Andrei
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:25 PM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default A question for the list:

On 05 Nov 2010, ZephyrQ wrote:
>
> I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
> problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
> have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month? (I know that my
> MMV, but if I start playing with either testing or unstable, I don't
> want to get into a problem/find fix/fix lather/rinse/repeat cycle too
> often).
>

I think the last time anything really bad happened was over a year ago,
when there were a lot of things going on with X. Other than that, I run
apt-listbugs, as others have suggested, and I try to remember to check
that packages I need are not going to be removed, as sometimes happens,
resulting in a few days' annoyance until a missing dependency is fixed.

--
Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk - sample my ebooks at
http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/acampbell


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Old 11-05-2010, 03:37 PM
Joe
 
Default A question for the list:

On 05/11/10 15:54, ZephyrQ wrote:

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Vi, 05 nov 10, 10:18:04, John Hasler wrote:

Drew writes:

Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid.

Good point. Also, don't feel that you should "track" Unstable. Upgrade
individual packages as needed and do an occasional dist-upgrade if you
feel the need to clean things up.


Still, upgrading too seldom can make the upgrade more painful, even for
testing. YMMV, of course.


I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month? (I know that my
MMV, but if I start playing with either testing or unstable, I don't
want to get into a problem/find fix/fix lather/rinse/repeat cycle too
often).


In my case, I'd say that I notice something important is broken about
three or four times a year, and it's usually sound. If it takes more
than about half an hour to fix, I'd call it serious and I'd guess that
happens less than once a year, more than once in two years.


The last minor one was about a week ago, when a grub update prevented
booting for those who have a separate /boot partition (*not* the first
time that's happened, and for the same reason as last time, so at least
it was an easy fix). I have twice in about seven years met something
beyond my ability to fix (and one of those concerned grub) and needed to
reinstall. But it's a workstation, so there's nothing important stored
on it, and I take frequent backups of /etc and the package list. I also
have other computers, which is important if you consider running sid.


I do upgrade pretty well every day, because the backlog builds up very
quickly otherwise. Depending on the position in the release cycle, a
download average of 70-80MB/day for a week or two is not unusual, and
I'd rather not deal with a week of that at a time. 5-10 minutes a day is
manageable, I'd prefer that it wasn't a one-hour session, as I'd keep
putting it off until it was a three- or four-hour one.


--
Joe


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Old 11-05-2010, 04:08 PM
Stefan Monnier
 
Default A question for the list:

> I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
> problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
> have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month? (I know that my
> MMV, but if I start playing with either testing or unstable, I don't
> want to get into a problem/find fix/fix lather/rinse/repeat cycle too
> often).

I've been using Debian testing on my desktops and laptops for about
7 years now. I remember some serious problems with major transitions
(e.g. xfree86->xorg), but over the last 2-3 years I can't remember of
any problems I've had to fix other than ones due to my particular
desires (mostly: convincing APT to keep Gnome with wicd rather than
network-manager).

The best part for me, tho, is that you don't have to go through the "big
version upgrade" cycle, since you can do "small updates" as often as you
like: the more often you do them, the smaller (i.e. painless) they get.


Stefan "Still running the same 7 year-old install"


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Old 11-05-2010, 04:21 PM
John Hasler
 
Default A question for the list:

ZephyrQ writes:
> I hate to ask the question this way, but in terms of
> problems/fixes/downtime--approximately how often do you find that you
> have to 'fix' something in Sid? 1x week, 1x month?

Once every year or two (but I use neither Gnome nor KDE). The fix
usually consists of waiting for a missing library to be uploaded. It's
a good idea to keep an eye on debian-devel for discussions of complex
transitions, broken uploads, etc.
--
John Hasler


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