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Old 11-05-2010, 08:00 AM
Jochen Schulz
 
Default A question for the list:

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.:
> In <4CD3921A.5090408@optonline.net>, Doug wrote:
>>
>> One thing I
>> really _don't_ like about Debian is its fear of the copyright. I really
>> want
>> Thunderbird and Firefox, with their familiar icons, on my screen, not the
>> goofy clones that Debian has come up with.
>
> It's not a "fear". It's a reality. The Mozilla Foundation contacted Debian
> Developers and asked them to come into compliance on the trademark usage
> allowances that Mozilla provides.

The funny thing is, AFAIR the trademark license has been changed since
then and if I got it right, there is no need for rebranding anymore.

> Debian's choices were: 1. Seek approval from the Mozilla Foundation for *all*
> patches. 2. Stop using the trademark.

#1 was not an option anyway, because it doesn't comply with the DFSG.
Everyone must be allowed to change and distribute Debian without
permission from anyone else.

J.
--
Nothing is as I planned it.
[Agree] [Disagree]
<http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>
 
Old 11-05-2010, 10:43 AM
ZephyrQ
 
Default A question for the list:

Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> ZephyrQ put forth on 11/4/2010 9:50 PM:
>> If you could not/did not use Debian (either Lenny, Squeeze, or Sid),
>> which other distribution would you use and why?
>
> What situation are you in that motivates this question?

Not a specific situation, merely an exploration.

I've been using Debian stable for years. I've tried Ubuntu (in the
early years) and Mint. Before Debian I used SuSE.

Lately, though, Debian seems 'stale'. I know that Squeeze is coming up
the pipe fairly soon; but I'm in process of moving my office and
upgrading equipment and am taking opportunity to see what others like
besides Debian. I may try out another flavor.

I realize that Debian's 'stableness' contributes to its 'staleness', and
I like/need that stability as I do a lot of work from home. But I also
want to try out some software that is often not supported yet in stable
(dependencies, usually) and I don't have time (middle-aged teacher...)
to track down fixes/kludges/etc. So I'm looking for a good balance
between stability and usability while staying up to date (sort of).


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Old 11-05-2010, 10:50 AM
ZephyrQ
 
Default A question for the list:

Klistvud wrote:
> Dne, 05. 11. 2010 03:50:07 je ZephyrQ napisal(a):
>> If you could not/did not use Debian (either Lenny, Squeeze, or Sid),
>> which other distribution would you use and why?
>
> gNewSense.
>

How stable/solid is it? I've looked at it and am intrigued...


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Old 11-05-2010, 11:31 AM
Klistvud
 
Default A question for the list:

Dne, 05. 11. 2010 12:43:34 je ZephyrQ napisal(a):


I realize that Debian's 'stableness' contributes to its 'staleness',


It doesn't just "contribute". There's a reason why there's only a small
"b" of difference between "staleness" and "stableness".


--
Cheerio,

Klistvud
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com
Certifiable Loonix User #481801 Please reply to the list, not to
me.



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Old 11-05-2010, 11:37 AM
Jerome BENOIT
 
Default A question for the list:

Hello,

On 05/11/10 19:43, ZephyrQ wrote:

Stan Hoeppner wrote:

ZephyrQ put forth on 11/4/2010 9:50 PM:

If you could not/did not use Debian (either Lenny, Squeeze, or Sid),
which other distribution would you use and why?


What situation are you in that motivates this question?


Not a specific situation, merely an exploration.

I've been using Debian stable for years. I've tried Ubuntu (in the
early years) and Mint. Before Debian I used SuSE.

Lately, though, Debian seems 'stale'. I know that Squeeze is coming up
the pipe fairly soon; but I'm in process of moving my office and
upgrading equipment and am taking opportunity to see what others like
besides Debian. I may try out another flavor.

I realize that Debian's 'stableness' contributes to its 'staleness', and
I like/need that stability as I do a lot of work from home. But I also
want to try out some software that is often not supported yet in stable
(dependencies, usually) and I don't have time (middle-aged teacher...)
to track down fixes/kludges/etc. So I'm looking for a good balance
between stability and usability while staying up to date (sort of).



quid Debian testing ?

Jerome






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Old 11-05-2010, 11:50 AM
Klistvud
 
Default A question for the list:

Dne, 05. 11. 2010 12:50:14 je ZephyrQ napisal(a):

> gNewSense.
>

How stable/solid is it? I've looked at it and am intrigued...



I must have misunderstood your question. I have never tried gNewSense,
I was just pointing out that, personally, the only distros I would be
willing to try out are distros that are at least as free/libre as
Debian.
Among the distros I did try out - Knoppix, Ubuntu, OpenSuSE, Mandriva,
and some minor ones - there is not a single one I'd be willing to
revert to. I guess there's a reason I'm staying with Debian after all
;-) ... Ideological reasons, mostly ... DFSG ... and Debian being a
community endeavor ... and having a particularly slow release schedule
(yep, while many complain about that, I consider it as being one of
Debian's strongest points; go figure) ... and being secure ... and
stable ... and being the "mother" of so many distros ...




--
Cheerio,

Klistvud
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com
Certifiable Loonix User #481801 Please reply to the list, not to
me.



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Old 11-05-2010, 11:56 AM
John Hasler
 
Default A question for the list:

ZephyrQ writes:
> Lately, though, Debian seems 'stale'.

If you are talking about a desktop and want to be on the bleeding edge
use Unstable. It's quite usable.
--
John Hasler


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Old 11-05-2010, 11:59 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default A question for the list:

In <20101105090054.GC4403@wasteland.homelinux.net>, Jochen Schulz wrote:
>Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.:
>> In <4CD3921A.5090408@optonline.net>, Doug wrote:
>>> One thing I
>>> really _don't_ like about Debian is its fear of the copyright. I really
>>> want
>>> Thunderbird and Firefox, with their familiar icons, on my screen, not the
>>> goofy clones that Debian has come up with.
>>
>> It's not a "fear". It's a reality. The Mozilla Foundation contacted
>> Debian Developers and asked them to come into compliance on the trademark
>> usage allowances that Mozilla provides.
>
>The funny thing is, AFAIR the trademark license has been changed since
>then and if I got it right, there is no need for rebranding anymore.

From <http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html>:
MODIFICATIONS
If you're taking full advantage of the open-source nature of Mozilla's
products and making significant functional changes, you may not redistribute
the fruits of your labor under any Mozilla trademark, without Mozilla's prior
written consent. For example, if the product you've modified is Firefox, you
may not use Mozilla or Firefox, in whole or in part, in its name. Also, it
would be inappropriate for you to say "based on Mozilla Firefox". Instead, in
the interest of complete accuracy, you could describe your executables as
"based on Mozilla technology", or "incorporating Mozilla source code." In
addition, you may want to read the discussion on the "Powered by Mozilla"
logo.
In addition, if you compile a modified version, as discussed above, with
branding enabled (the default in our source code is branding disabled), you
will require Mozilla's prior written permission. If it's not the unmodified
installer package from www.mozilla.com, and you want to use our trademark(s),
our review and approval of your modifications is required. You also must
change the name of the executable so as to reduce the chance that a user of
the modified software will be misled into believing it to be a native Mozilla
product.
Again, any modification to the Mozilla product, including adding to, modifying
in any way, or deleting content from the files included with an installer,
file location changes, added code, modification of any source files including
additions and deletions, etc., will require our permission if you want to use
the Mozilla Marks. If you have any doubt, just ask us at
trademarks@mozilla.com.

>> Debian's choices were: 1. Seek approval from the Mozilla Foundation for
>> *all* patches. 2. Stop using the trademark.
>
>#1 was not an option anyway, because it doesn't comply with the DFSG.
>Everyone must be allowed to change and distribute Debian without
>permission from anyone else.

I disagree. DFSG point 4 allows conditions like "if you modify the source,
you must change the name".

From <http://www.debian.org/social_contract>:
The license may require derived works to carry a different name or version
number from the original software. (This is a compromise. The Debian group
encourages all authors not to restrict any files, source or binary, from being
modified.)
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 11-05-2010, 12:04 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default A question for the list:

In <4CD3EDE6.20009@sbcglobal.net>, ZephyrQ wrote:
>Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> ZephyrQ put forth on 11/4/2010 9:50 PM:
>>> If you could not/did not use Debian (either Lenny, Squeeze, or Sid),
>>> which other distribution would you use and why?
>>
>> What situation are you in that motivates this question?
>
>Not a specific situation, merely an exploration.
>
>I've been using Debian stable for years. I've tried Ubuntu (in the
>early years) and Mint. Before Debian I used SuSE.
>
>Lately, though, Debian seems 'stale'. I know that Squeeze is coming up
>the pipe fairly soon; but I'm in process of moving my office and
>upgrading equipment and am taking opportunity to see what others like
>besides Debian. I may try out another flavor.

A mixed system! http://iguanasuicide.net/node/4
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 11-05-2010, 12:17 PM
Andrew Winnenberg
 
Default A question for the list:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 11/5/10 8:56 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> ZephyrQ writes:
>> Lately, though, Debian seems 'stale'.
>
> If you are talking about a desktop and want to be on the bleeding edge
> use Unstable. It's quite usable.

Consider installing apt-listbugs if you're going to run sid. It gives
you a little list of bugs against packages you're installing/upgrading
so you can decide if you want to go through with the install. I've been
saved from catastrophe more then once by that little package.

Drew
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