FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 10-03-2010, 09:24 AM
Stefano Zacchiroli
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Dear followers of the -user mailing list,
you might be interesting in knowing that since yesterday there's a new
Debian experiment ongoing in the area of user support:

http://shapado.debian.net/

which is a multi-language question/answer website where participants can
ask questions, answer questions, and rank answers given by others. I'm
not a regular participant of this list, but the website might be a nice
complement for those who prefer (either temporarily or on a regular
basis) a web-based medium. More information have appeared on -project
[1] and Planet Debian [2].

Now that I think of it, there might even be room for some synergies
among this (and similar) list(s) and shapado.debian.net; for instance,
regulars of this list might consider having posted to this list new
questions appearing on the question RSS feed [3]. This is just the idea,
as the actual details of similar syncs are always a bit delicate ...

Keep in mind however that for the moment all this is just an experiment,
the success of it will depend on community participation. See you there?

Cheers.

PS I'm not subscribed, so please Cc:-me on followups if you want your
message to reach me.

[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2010/10/msg00009.html
[2] http://upsilon.cc/~zack/blog/posts/2010/10/Question_and_Answer_support_for_Debian_users/
[3] http://shapado.debian.net/questions.atom?feed_token=4451756b93764d08af84009e 7f3c628f

--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Caposella .......| ..: |.......... -- C. Adams
 
Old 10-03-2010, 05:53 PM
"Jesús M. Navarro"
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Hi Stefano:

On Sunday 03 October 2010 11:24:35 Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> Dear followers of the -user mailing list,
> you might be interesting in knowing that since yesterday there's a new
> Debian experiment ongoing in the area of user support:
>
> http://shapado.debian.net/
>
> which is a multi-language question/answer website where participants can
> ask questions, answer questions, and rank answers given by others. I'm
> not a regular participant of this list, but the website might be a nice
> complement for those who prefer (either temporarily or on a regular
> basis) a web-based medium.

Thus disgregating limited "work force" between two competing environments.
Remember web forums (and spam) was what killed NNTP as a general usage tool
(and I don't think it has been for the better).

[...]

> Keep in mind however that for the moment all this is just an experiment,
> the success of it will depend on community participation. See you there?

For my part, I don't think so.

> Cheers.
>
> PS I'm not subscribed, so please Cc:-me on followups if you want your
> message to reach me.

And that's exactly why.

Cheers.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 201010031953.55478.jesus.navarro@undominio.net">ht tp://lists.debian.org/201010031953.55478.jesus.navarro@undominio.net
 
Old 10-03-2010, 06:10 PM
Camaleón
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:53:55 +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote:

>> http://shapado.debian.net/
>>
>> which is a multi-language question/answer website where participants
>> can ask questions, answer questions, and rank answers given by others.
>> I'm not a regular participant of this list, but the website might be a
>> nice complement for those who prefer (either temporarily or on a
>> regular basis) a web-based medium.
>
> Thus disgregating limited "work force" between two competing
> environments. Remember web forums (and spam) was what killed NNTP as a
> general usage tool (and I don't think it has been for the better).

Newcomers seem to be more confortable with forums (mostly young users) so
why not provide as many options as we can (mailing lists, forums,
nntp...).

I see them not as "competing" but as a "complement" of each other.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.10.03.18.10.28@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.10.03.18.10.28@gmail.com
 
Old 10-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Klistvud
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Dne, 03. 10. 2010 20:10:28 je Camaleón napisal(a):


> Thus disgregating limited "work force" between two competing
> environments.

Newcomers seem to be more confortable with forums (mostly young users)


By setting up a web application that simply "mirrored" the mailing
lists ("translated" them into forum form), we could have the best of
both worlds. People comfortable with mailing lists would continue to
use it in the "mailing list" form whereas people comfortable with
forums would use it in the "forum form"; the application would
transparently integrate the two, sending any new forum post to the
relevant mailing list and, vice versa, pasting any new mailing list
message into the forum.


Of course, I don't have the faintest idea how difficult would it be to
implement such an application ...


Just my 2¢
--
Regards,

Klistvud
Certifiable Loonix User #481801
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com

Please reply to the list, not to me.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 1286134534.6721.0@compax">http://lists.debian.org/1286134534.6721.0@compax
 
Old 10-03-2010, 08:25 PM
Camaleón
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 21:35:34 +0200, Klistvud wrote:

> Dne, 03. 10. 2010 20:10:28 je Camaleón napisal(a):
>
>> > Thus disgregating limited "work force" between two competing
>> > environments.
>>
>> Newcomers seem to be more confortable with forums (mostly young users)
>
> By setting up a web application that simply "mirrored" the mailing lists
> ("translated" them into forum form), we could have the best of both
> worlds.

I think it's not that simple, I'm afraid :-)

But indeed, that would be great. Anyway, I'm using nntp to read and send
e-mails to the lists, I find it the most suitable way to handle lots of
lists and messages (I do not want to locally store the e-mails and a
newsreader is very flexible, as it lets me configure how long the
messages will be available on my disk. In the event I need more messages,
I can re-fetch them again).

The only service providing such kind of feature is Gmane (mail to news)
and would be also great to have our own Debian nntp multi-gateway system,
providing a convergence between nntp, mailing lists and forum, a true all-
in-one service :-}

(ahh, dreaming is free...)

> People comfortable with mailing lists would continue to use it
> in the "mailing list" form whereas people comfortable with forums would
> use it in the "forum form"; the application would transparently
> integrate the two, sending any new forum post to the relevant mailing
> list and, vice versa, pasting any new mailing list message into the
> forum.
>
> Of course, I don't have the faintest idea how difficult would it be to
> implement such an application ...
>
> Just my 2¢

Yep. And I'll give it up an Euro (1€) for that :-P

Sometimes is not even a matter of taste but a must. I know there are many
Debian users that can only use e-mail to communicate with the world (no
Internet access, no web browsing, nada) and mailing lists are of great
help for them.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.10.03.20.25.28@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.10.03.20.25.28@gmail.com
 
Old 10-04-2010, 12:44 AM
"Jesús M. Navarro"
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Hi, Camaleón:

On Sunday 03 October 2010 20:10:28 Camaleón wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:53:55 +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote:
> >> http://shapado.debian.net/
> >>
> >> which is a multi-language question/answer website where participants
> >> can ask questions, answer questions, and rank answers given by others.
> >> I'm not a regular participant of this list, but the website might be a
> >> nice complement for those who prefer (either temporarily or on a
> >> regular basis) a web-based medium.
> >
> > Thus disgregating limited "work force" between two competing
> > environments. Remember web forums (and spam) was what killed NNTP as a
> > general usage tool (and I don't think it has been for the better).
>
> Newcomers seem to be more confortable with forums (mostly young users) so
> why not provide as many options as we can (mailing lists, forums,
> nntp...).
>
> I see them not as "competing" but as a "complement" of each other.

The problem here is that knowledge is an intensive resource, not extensive.

Think about gas stations. You want a lot of them, widely placed, so you have
one near you when you needed.

But knowledge is different. If you have a problem you need *a* solution (and,
sometimes, *the* solution, since there's only one). It's of no help having
multiple points where you can get an answer, but getting the answer is.

Say you have two knowledge centers and you are looking for an answer. You go
for one first but there will be only half of the knowledge sources there.
You are reducing in half your chances to get a solution. Maybe you don't get
your solution there so, what do you do? You go for the second source to try
there.

See the difference? In order to get an answer I have to look after all the
places where I can get it. In order to fill my tank I only need one gas
station, the one more convenient at the moment.

In the end, you have to subscribe to *both* knowledge centers in order to get
proper coverage. This has already happened: ten or fifteen years ago, I
could go to an easily indexable single source (NNTP) and get my answers. Now
I have to trim a lot of resources (web forums) with always the chance to
overlook "the good one" (i.e. a new web forum that has became the cool place
now and I am still not aware of). I can't think of this situation to be any
better than current one.

Of course, having multiple interfaces to the same datasources (properly
coupled NNTP, mail lists, web forums, whatever) is of advantage to everybody
and I don't have anything to say against it, but that's not what is being
offered here.

Cheers.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 201010040244.05022.jesus.navarro@undominio.net">ht tp://lists.debian.org/201010040244.05022.jesus.navarro@undominio.net
 
Old 10-04-2010, 03:09 AM
green
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Klistvud wrote at 2010-10-03 14:35 -0500:
> By setting up a web application that simply "mirrored" the mailing
> lists ("translated" them into forum form), we could have the best of
> both worlds. People comfortable with mailing lists would continue to
> use it in the "mailing list" form whereas people comfortable with
> forums would use it in the "forum form"; the application would
> transparently integrate the two, sending any new forum post to the
> relevant mailing list and, vice versa, pasting any new mailing list
> message into the forum.

Like this?

http://www.debianhelp.org/forum/78
 
Old 10-04-2010, 06:48 AM
Klistvud
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Dne, 04. 10. 2010 05:09:43 je green napisal(a):

Klistvud wrote at 2010-10-03 14:35 -0500:
> By setting up a web application that simply "mirrored" the mailing
> lists ("translated" them into forum form), we could have the best of
> both worlds. People comfortable with mailing lists would continue to
> use it in the "mailing list" form whereas people comfortable with
> forums would use it in the "forum form"; the application would
> transparently integrate the two, sending any new forum post to the
> relevant mailing list and, vice versa, pasting any new mailing list
> message into the forum.

Like this?

http://www.debianhelp.org/forum/78



Exactly.

--
Regards,

Klistvud Hot-Water Discoveries Inc.
Certifiable Loonix User #481801
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com

Please reply to the list, not to me.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 1286174928.27059.0@compax">http://lists.debian.org/1286174928.27059.0@compax
 
Old 10-04-2010, 06:51 AM
"Jesús M. Navarro"
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

Hi, green:

On Monday 04 October 2010 05:09:43 green wrote:
> Klistvud wrote at 2010-10-03 14:35 -0500:
> > By setting up a web application that simply "mirrored" the mailing
> > lists ("translated" them into forum form), we could have the best of
> > both worlds. People comfortable with mailing lists would continue to
> > use it in the "mailing list" form whereas people comfortable with
> > forums would use it in the "forum form"; the application would
> > transparently integrate the two, sending any new forum post to the
> > relevant mailing list and, vice versa, pasting any new mailing list
> > message into the forum.
>
> Like this?
>
> http://www.debianhelp.org/forum/78

I wouldn't be surprised that Stefano was unaware of this. I wouldn't be
surprised of that (see my posts on this thread).

Cheers.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 201010040851.47418.jesus.navarro@undominio.net">ht tp://lists.debian.org/201010040851.47418.jesus.navarro@undominio.net
 
Old 10-04-2010, 07:21 AM
Camaleón
 
Default question/answer website for user support: shapado.debian.net

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 02:44:04 +0200, Jesús M. Navarro wrote:

> On Sunday 03 October 2010 20:10:28 Camaleón wrote:

>> > Thus disgregating limited "work force" between two competing
>> > environments. Remember web forums (and spam) was what killed NNTP as
>> > a general usage tool (and I don't think it has been for the better).
>>
>> Newcomers seem to be more confortable with forums (mostly young users)
>> so why not provide as many options as we can (mailing lists, forums,
>> nntp...).
>>
>> I see them not as "competing" but as a "complement" of each other.
>
> The problem here is that knowledge is an intensive resource, not
> extensive.

(...)

> In the end, you have to subscribe to *both* knowledge centers in order
> to get proper coverage. This has already happened: ten or fifteen years
> ago, I could go to an easily indexable single source (NNTP) and get my
> answers. Now I have to trim a lot of resources (web forums) with always
> the chance to overlook "the good one" (i.e. a new web forum that has
> became the cool place now and I am still not aware of). I can't think
> of this situation to be any better than current one.

I see your point that splitting the sources to get the knowledge is a big
drawback and I agree with that.

But that situation does not negate the fact that today there are several
ways to get the information we need (IRC, forums, mailing lists, RSS
chanels/planets, NNTP, twitters, blogs...) and we should handle all of
them with care and integrate as much as we can to get not just happy
users... but to get users to stay.

There is no "one size fits all" and I'm afraid many users will become
ungry if we (take this just as an example) drop the forums and
concentrate our efforts in mailing lists. Or viceversa.

You (or me) may not be familiar with the Shapado service but people who
don't like to write big chunks of texts may find it more friendly and
effective to get their doubts solved. And as per the "waste of
resources", well, I think that's up to the users in charge of the
service :-)

But despite the service (Shapado) itself and what it can provide to
Debian community, the most I appreciate of this initiative is seeing
people to start a new project and make things to happen. That kind of
people is very scarce in these days.

OTOH, yes, I'm also with you that having to keep track of all of this
"maremagnum" of data is not easy. For that reason I'm stuck to the
mailing lists and leave the forums a bit apart :-P

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: pan.2010.10.04.07.21.36@gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.10.04.07.21.36@gmail.com
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:35 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org