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Old 09-24-2010, 04:32 PM
T o n g
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:17:57 +0000, T o n g wrote:

>> you shouldn't care about the backend used by "gnome-power-manager" . .
>> .
>
>> Nowadays "gnome-power-manager" seems to use DBus instad of HAL, though.
>
> I build my system from scratch (debootstrap). Ok, let me specify
> gnome-power-manager and the acpi-support package this time, removing all
> detailed back-end supporting package from the list, hoping that the
> Debian will figure out the rest for me.

Of all the following acpi related packages, which ones do you have (or,
which ones should I tell my debootstrap to install)?

acpi-fakekey - tool to generate fake key events
acpi-support-base - scripts for handling base ACPI events such as the
power button
acpi-support - scripts for handling many ACPI events
acpi - displays information on ACPI devices
acpid - Advanced Configuration and Power Interface event daemon
acpitool - command line ACPI client
acpidump - utilities to dump system's ACPI tables to an ASCII file
laptop-detect - attempt to detect a laptop
laptop-mode-tools - Tools for Power Savings based on battery/AC status
sleepd - puts an inactive or low battery laptop to sleep

Thanks

--
Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply)
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/tools/


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Old 09-24-2010, 05:37 PM
Javier Vasquez
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:17:57 +0000, T o n g wrote:
> ...
> Of all the following acpi related packages, which ones do you have (or,
> which ones should I tell my debootstrap to install)?
>
> acpi-fakekey - tool to generate fake key events
> acpi-support-base - scripts for handling base ACPI events such as the
> power button
> acpi-support - scripts for handling many ACPI events
> acpi - displays information on ACPI devices
> acpid - Advanced Configuration and Power Interface event daemon
> acpitool - command line ACPI client
> acpidump - utilities to dump system's ACPI tables to an ASCII file
> laptop-detect - attempt to detect a laptop
> laptop-mode-tools - Tools for Power Savings based on battery/AC status
> sleepd - puts an inactive or low battery laptop to sleep
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply)

I don't have the context of you previous e-mail, so my answer is just
biased by what I use, which is NO desktop environment at all, also
notice, it's a matter of taste most of the time... So what I install
is:

acpi
acpitool
acpid
acpi-support-base
laptop-mode-tools
cpufrequtils
cpufreqd
lm-sensors
sensord

I do suspend to RAM through "acpitool -s" and suspend to disk through
"acpitool -S", so I don't need any other suspending solution...

laptop-detect is a dependency for some of those I mentioned, so I
didn't include it.

I believe acpi-support-base is also a dependency, so probably I
shouldn't have included it, but well, I'm not sure.

acpi-fakekey is a dependency for acpi-support, so if you include
acpi-support, the other will be installed.

acpi-support is nice specially if one doesn't have a desktop
environment, and wants some buttons and keys support, but I found it
too bloated for my taste, and I do things through commands or menu
entries in fluxbox, so I don't really need it, and besides some of the
stuff doesn't even work for me. But you might want to use it fi it
provides something to you...

I'm not sure about power button application you included, but perhaps
if you have acpi-support, you won't need it. Sounds like they
overlap, not sure if can coexist. I've never used power button.

acpidump is just if you're in need to print out acpi tables. I never
had the need, :-)


--
Javier.


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Old 09-24-2010, 05:49 PM
T o n g
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:37:55 -0600, Javier Vasquez wrote:

> I don't have the context of you previous e-mail, so my answer is just
> biased by what I use, which is NO desktop environment at all

Thanks. I use fluxbox and don't use desktop environment myself as well
(my wife does).

Thank you for your detailed explanation to disentangle them for me. May I
know what laptop that you are using? -- mine is just causing me too much
trouble to configure.

Thanks

--
Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply)
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/
http://xpt.sourceforge.net/tools/


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Old 09-24-2010, 06:05 PM
Camaleón
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:32:13 +0000, T o n g wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:17:57 +0000, T o n g wrote:
>
>>> you shouldn't care about the backend used by "gnome-power-manager" . .
>>> .
>>
>>> Nowadays "gnome-power-manager" seems to use DBus instad of HAL,
>>> though.
>>
>> I build my system from scratch (debootstrap). Ok, let me specify
>> gnome-power-manager and the acpi-support package this time, removing
>> all detailed back-end supporting package from the list, hoping that the
>> Debian will figure out the rest for me.
>
> Of all the following acpi related packages, which ones do you have (or,
> which ones should I tell my debootstrap to install)?
>
> acpi-fakekey - tool to generate fake key events
> acpi-support-base -> scripts for handling base ACPI events such as the
> power button
> acpi-support - scripts for handling many ACPI events
> acpi - displays information on ACPI devices
> acpid - Advanced Configuration and Power Interface event daemon
> acpitool - command line ACPI client
> acpidump - utilities to dump system's ACPI tables to an ASCII file
> laptop-detect - attempt to detect a laptop
> laptop-mode-tools - Tools for Power Savings based on battery/AC status
> sleepd - puts an inactive or low battery laptop to sleep

>From that list I only have installed "acpi" (in both, lenny and squeeze -
the latter installed inside a virtual machine-) and also the GNOME
environment.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 09-24-2010, 06:55 PM
Mark Goldshtein
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Javier Vasquez <j.e.vasquez.v@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:17:57 +0000, T o n g wrote:
>> ...
>> Of all the following acpi related packages, which ones do you have (or,
>> which ones should I tell my debootstrap to install)?
>>
>> acpi-fakekey - tool to generate fake key events
>> acpi-support-base - scripts for handling base ACPI events such as the
>> power button
>> acpi-support - scripts for handling many ACPI events
>> acpi - displays information on ACPI devices
>> acpid - Advanced Configuration and Power Interface event daemon
>> acpitool - command line ACPI client
>> acpidump - utilities to dump system's ACPI tables to an ASCII file
>> laptop-detect - attempt to detect a laptop
>> laptop-mode-tools - Tools for Power Savings based on battery/AC status
>> sleepd - puts an inactive or low battery laptop to sleep
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>> Tong (remove underscore(s) to reply)
>
> I don't have the context of you previous e-mail, so my answer is just
> biased by what I use, which is NO desktop environment at all, also
> notice, it's a matter of taste most of the time... *So what I install
> is:
>
> acpi
> acpitool
> acpid
> acpi-support-base
> laptop-mode-tools
> cpufrequtils
> cpufreqd
> lm-sensors
> sensord
>
> I do suspend to RAM through "acpitool -s" and suspend to disk through
> "acpitool -S", so I don't need any other suspending solution...
>
> laptop-detect is a dependency for some of those I mentioned, so I
> didn't include it.
>
> I believe acpi-support-base is also a dependency, so probably I
> shouldn't have included it, but well, I'm not sure.
>
> acpi-fakekey is a dependency for acpi-support, so if you include
> acpi-support, the other will be installed.
>
> acpi-support is nice specially if one doesn't have a desktop
> environment, and wants some buttons and keys support, but I found it
> too bloated for my taste, and I do things through commands or menu
> entries in fluxbox, so I don't really need it, and besides some of the
> stuff doesn't even work for me. *But you might want to use it fi it
> provides something to you...
>
> I'm not sure about power button application you included, but perhaps
> if you have acpi-support, you won't need it. *Sounds like they
> overlap, not sure if can coexist. *I've never used power button.
>
> acpidump is just if you're in need to print out acpi tables. *I never
> had the need, :-)
>

Thanks for such informative message, Javier!

If you have couple of minutes, would you, please, to expand your
comments about a system without desktop environment? Targeting a
laptop.
Is that enough to install a base system, bootloader, then reboot,
install "acpi" packages you have mentioned, xorg and then a window
manager?
Is there dependences on 'xorg', which allow a proper xorg installation?
Please, correct me, I am sure I have missed a lot of useful system
components. Like xscreensaver, for example.

Thanks in advance!

--

Sincerely Yours'
Mark Goldshtein


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Old 09-24-2010, 07:26 PM
Javier Vasquez
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:49 AM, T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 11:37:55 -0600, Javier Vasquez wrote:
>
>> ...
>
> Thanks. I use fluxbox and don't use desktop environment myself as well
> (my wife does).
>
> Thank you for your detailed explanation to disentangle them for me. May I
> know what laptop that you are using? -- mine is just causing me too much
> trouble to configure.
> ....

1.- Dell Inspiron 600M (my dad's).
2.- Compaq 8510w (office's).

My basic install is the same for both, even though on one I have
debian i386 and the other debian amd64... Something I forgot to
mention, I've used unstable for quiet a bit of time (don't even
remember when I started using just unstable), and haven't found much
trouble, so I'm not aware of too much configuration problems under
testing neither stable, :-( I haven't had the need to even do much
tweaking, snsorsd requires running sensors-detect from the list of
applications above, :-)

--
Javier.


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Old 09-24-2010, 07:47 PM
Javier Vasquez
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Mark Goldshtein
<mark.goldshtein@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Javier Vasquez <j.e.vasquez.v@gmail.com> wrote:
>...
>
> If you have couple of minutes, would you, please, to expand your
> comments about a system without desktop environment? Targeting a
> laptop.

In both the laptops I manage:

1.- Dell Inspiron 600M (my dad's).
2.- Compaq 8510w (from work).

I don't have a desktop environment such as kde, gnome, xfce, or any
other. In my dad's I call startfluxbox from ~/.xsession, and have xdm
installed and working, that's it.

For the one from work, as I'm the only one using it, I don't even have
a session loader installed, to start X I just call startx, and again,
I just call startfluxbox from ~/.xsession.

I've lived that way for so long that I don't like bloated (my opinion,
not to start a discussion) desktop environments... Things might
change, but I still feel confortable this way...

> Is that enough to install a base system, bootloader, then reboot,

I don't know what a base system is. For squeeze (I had recently to
install it in other boxes, also without desktop environment) the first
thing I did was to change the configuration that by default now sets
APT to always install "recommended packages":

% cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00InstallRecommends
APT::Install-Recommends "false";

That I did through the installation process, since with "recommends"
there's a lot of unnecessary (according to me) software installed.
Then I didn't install anything else than the minimum required. The
default coming from squeeze might do. Then I start installing the
applications I want, including power management, fluxbox, X, alsa
stuff, etc... Without using tasksel, since most of such tasks are not
good for me. I always install build-essential, and some additional
compilation stuff, plus other applications for office, web browsing
etc.

This is my approach, doesn't mean you have to follow though. BTW, I
use aptitude in ncurses mode to install, and select/unselect some
dependencies...

> install "acpi" packages you have mentioned, xorg and then a window
> manager?
> Is there dependences on 'xorg', which allow a proper xorg installation?

There's a package Xorg which automatically triggers lots of
dependencies such as xserver-xorg. I do install more stuff. I don't
like xserver-xorg-*-all, I go and unselect them, and instead select
just the input devices, video devices etc that I need. I don't like
installing everything. Then I also shoot for several fonts not
automatically selected by Xorg, like TTFs, and terminus (the one I use
for console and X terminals)...

> Please, correct me, I am sure I have missed a lot of useful system
> components. Like xscreensaver, for example.

Xorg was having lots of problems with memory management with
Xscreensaver on the Dell inspiron laptop. There's a reported and
unfixed bug about it, so I completely dropped xscreensaver. I use
instead a combination of:

xlockmore
xautolock

I think that provides all I need in terms of screen saving. And more
now that I'm trying to play green a bit, :-) So I just have blank
screen to minimize power consuption, :-)

Please notice that what works for one, doesn't mean works for
everyone. A lot of people is happy with desktop environments, so it
might be they work OK for you...

--
Javier.


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Old 09-24-2010, 08:21 PM
Arthur Machlas
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Javier Vasquez <j.e.vasquez.v@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Mark Goldshtein
> <mark.goldshtein@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Javier Vasquez <j.e.vasquez.v@gmail.com> wrote:
>>...
>>
>> If you have couple of minutes, would you, please, to expand your
>> comments about a system without desktop environment? Targeting a
>> laptop.
>
> In both the laptops I manage:
>
> 1.- *Dell Inspiron 600M (my dad's).
> 2.- *Compaq 8510w (from work).
>
> I don't have a desktop environment such as kde, gnome, xfce, or any
> other. *In my dad's I call startfluxbox from ~/.xsession, and have xdm
> installed and working, that's it.
>
> For the one from work, as I'm the only one using it, I don't even have
> a session loader installed, to start X I just call startx, and again,
> I just call startfluxbox from ~/.xsession.
>
> I've lived that way for so long that I don't like bloated (my opinion,
> not to start a discussion) desktop environments... *Things might
> change, but I still feel confortable this way...
>
>> Is that enough to install a base system, bootloader, then reboot,
>
> I don't know what a base system is. *For squeeze (I had recently to
> install it in other boxes, also without desktop environment) the first
> thing I did was to change the configuration that by default now sets
> APT to always install "recommended packages":
>
> % cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00InstallRecommends
> APT::Install-Recommends "false";
>
> That I did through the installation process, since with "recommends"
> there's a lot of unnecessary (according to me) software installed.
> Then I didn't install anything else than the minimum required. *The
> default coming from squeeze might do. *Then I start installing the
> applications I want, including power management, fluxbox, X, alsa
> stuff, etc... *Without using tasksel, since most of such tasks are not
> good for me. *I always install build-essential, and some additional
> compilation stuff, plus other applications for office, web browsing
> etc.
>
> This is my approach, doesn't mean you have to follow though. *BTW, I
> use aptitude in ncurses mode to install, and select/unselect some
> dependencies...
>
>> install "acpi" packages you have mentioned, xorg and then a window
>> manager?
>> Is there dependences on 'xorg', which allow a proper xorg installation?
>
> There's a package Xorg which automatically triggers lots of
> dependencies such as xserver-xorg. *I do install more stuff. *I don't
> like xserver-xorg-*-all, I go and unselect them, and instead select
> just the input devices, video devices etc that I need. *I don't like
> installing everything. *Then I also shoot for several fonts not
> automatically selected by Xorg, like TTFs, and terminus (the one I use
> for console and X terminals)...
>
>> Please, correct me, I am sure I have missed a lot of useful system
>> components. Like xscreensaver, for example.
>
> Xorg was having lots of problems with memory management with
> Xscreensaver on the Dell inspiron laptop. *There's a reported and
> unfixed bug about it, so I completely dropped xscreensaver. *I use
> instead a combination of:
>
> xlockmore
> xautolock
>
> I think that provides all I need in terms of screen saving. *And more
> now that I'm trying to play green a bit, :-) *So I just have blank
> screen to minimize power consuption, :-)
>
> Please notice that what works for one, doesn't mean works for
> everyone. *A lot of people is happy with desktop environments, so it
> might be they work OK for you...
>
> --
> Javier.

Lots of useful info in there Javier. Also worth mentioning, though it
doesn't seem you use it, is laptop-mode-tools.


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Old 09-24-2010, 08:39 PM
Javier Vasquez
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

> Lots of useful info in there Javier. Also worth mentioning, though it
> doesn't seem you use it, is laptop-mode-tools.

I did include it in the ones I have installed, :-) The original list
had it with some words as well, so I thought it was not necessary to
make additional comments... See this was my list:

acpi
acpitool
acpid
acpi-support-base
laptop-mode-tools
cpufrequtils
cpufreqd
lm-sensors
sensord

When you install it, I don't remember if hdparm and sdparm are
automatically triggered as dependencies, but then if not it's pretty
good idea to have them installed, so that laptop-mode can play with
the HDs speeds... It can handle as well CPU frequency, but I prefer
cpufreqd for that purpose. By default in debian laptop-mode doesn't
handle CPU frequency, so it coexists pretty well with cpufreqd in
debian...

One can do several configurations with laptop-mode-tools, cpufreqd,
and several other power saving stuff. They should also work out of
the box (that has been my experience), but if one doesn't have desktop
environment, one must agree with the idea of doing some tweaks to
configuration files if necessary, :-)...

--
Javier.


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Old 09-24-2010, 09:47 PM
Arthur Machlas
 
Default To enable the power management mechanism

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Javier Vasquez <j.e.vasquez.v@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lots of useful info in there Javier. Also worth mentioning, though it
>> doesn't seem you use it, is laptop-mode-tools.
>
> I did include it in the ones I have installed, :-) *The original list
> had it with some words as well, so I thought it was not necessary to
> make additional comments... *See this was my list:
<snip>

Ah, my mistake.

> When you install it, I don't remember if hdparm and sdparm are
> automatically triggered as dependencies, but then if not it's pretty
> good idea to have them installed, so that laptop-mode *can play with
> the HDs speeds... *It can handle as well CPU frequency, but I prefer
> cpufreqd for that purpose. *By default in debian laptop-mode doesn't
> handle CPU frequency, so it coexists pretty well with cpufreqd in
> debian...
>

They are both recommends, and depending on whether you have a modern
sata, thus scsi to the kernel, or older ide drive, you just need
either sdparm or hdparm respectively. At least, I only install sdparm
and things seem to work well on my sata drive. YMMV.

I have never installed cpufreqd, or at least, not intentionally. I
install cpufrequtils, which sets one governor on boot, however if you
wish to switch between different governors based on whether you are on
ac or battery, laptopmode can switch that for you.

But perhaps I am misinformed and cpufrequtils is just another daemon
like cpufreqd... or maybe I am badly misinformed and they are the same
thing. In either case, it's almost a certainty that I'm misinformed.


> One can do several configurations with laptop-mode-tools, cpufreqd,
> and several other power saving stuff. *They should also work out of
> the box (that has been my experience), but if one doesn't have desktop
> environment, one must agree with the idea of doing some tweaks to
> configuration files if necessary, :-)...

The last time I setup laptopmode-tools under squeeze it is disabled by
default and does nothing. You need to edit its conf file in
/etc/deault/laptoop mode and set it to be enabled at boot. And then
yes, there are a great many things to play with, however I've mainly
just used it for spindowns of hd's.


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