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Old 09-17-2010, 09:29 PM
Angus Hedger
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:12:47 -0500
Mark Allums <mark@allums.com> wrote:

> The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is
> legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray.
>
> I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we
> would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you
> suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon?
>
>

HDCP =! BR. Blueray is protected by BD+ and acss, HDCP is what closes
the "analog hole" (between the player and the screen).

Having the HDCP key means you could make a virtual device that accepts
a HDCP encrypted single then passes it out in an unencrypted form to
the screen.

It means that BR playback on linux is closer, for example windows has a
protected content layer that passes the content from the player to the
screen, with this key you could build something like that for windows.

------
Regards,

Angus Hedger

Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97
 
Old 09-17-2010, 09:33 PM
Aaron Toponce
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:12:47PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
> The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it
> is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray.
>
> I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we
> would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you
> suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon?

I would count on it. As much as libdecss is a part of the GNU/Linux
ecosystem, I would expect libdehdcp, or similar to become a part of
the same. That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay.

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Old 09-17-2010, 11:38 PM
Klistvud
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

Dne, 17. 09. 2010 23:33:00 je Aaron Toponce napisal(a):

That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay.



I wouldn't count on that. The useful lifespan of each subsequent media
support has been steadily decreasing since at least the advent of
celluloid film. Vinyl records lasted for, give or take, 7 or 8 decades.
CDs will hardly reach 5 decades. DVDs are being slowly supplanted by
BluRay after having lasted, what, 2 decades? At that rate, BluRay
should be dead in 10 years.


Good riddance.

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Klistvud
Certifiable Loonix User #481801
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com

Please reply to the list, not to me.


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Old 09-17-2010, 11:59 PM
Mark Allums
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On 9/17/2010 4:33 PM, Aaron Toponce wrote:

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:12:47PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:

The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it
is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray.

I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we
would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you
suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon?


I would count on it. As much as libdecss is a part of the GNU/Linux
ecosystem, I would expect libdehdcp, or similar to become a part of
the same. That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay.




As was pointed out by Angus Hedger, I realized that HDCP =/= Blu-Ray.
The hope of some is that having the one will help with the other. The
success of Blu-Ray's encryption is in part because they can revoke keys
and add new ones. Newer movie releases use the new keys. In some
instances, older players will fail to play new movies without a firmware
update. (There are other reasons for this, like new codecs and new disc
menus and other things.)


Still, we can hope.





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Old 09-18-2010, 12:51 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On 18/09/10 07:12, Mark Allums wrote:
> The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is
> legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray.
>
> I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would
> eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose
> we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon?
>
>
The key is legitimate (confirmed by Intel) - what has been misreported
is that the key is used for encrypting the contents of the disk... the
disks are encrypted using AACS, it's the stream from the player to the
screen that is encrypted with HDCP.
The key (I want it printed on a bedsheet) is most likely to turn up in a
FPGA board, to be used by people wanting to rip the stream (need fast
RAID and a few TB of space).

So - sorry no relationship between the stream encypting key and the
ability to read the disk. The x264 encoder is more efficient than h264,
so the current method of ripping (lossy) still produces a better picture
quality than the "legal" releases.
Note: HDCP is what decides whether your monitor is allowed to display
the stream.
Hint: copy the disk to hdd and HDCP is removed from the equation.

for your edification:-
a forty times forty element matrix of fifty-six bit
hexadecimal numbers.

To generate a source key, take a forty-bit number that (in
binary) consists of twenty ones and twenty zeroes; this is
the source KSV. Add together those twenty rows of the matrix
that correspond to the ones in the KSV (with the lowest bit
in the KSV corresponding to the first row), taking all elements
modulo two to the power of fifty-six; this is the source
private key.

To generate a sink key, do the same, but with the transposed
matrix. <snip>big table</snip>

Cheers



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Old 09-18-2010, 09:10 AM
Angus Hedger
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:51:21 +1000
Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:
> The key is legitimate (confirmed by Intel) - what has been
> misreported is that the key is used for encrypting the contents of
> the disk... the disks are encrypted using AACS, it's the stream from
> the player to the screen that is encrypted with HDCP.
> The key (I want it printed on a bedsheet) is most likely to turn up
> in a FPGA board, to be used by people wanting to rip the stream (need
> fast RAID and a few TB of space).

You would need around about 1TB of space for 1 movie uncompressed and
the FPGA/raid would need to be able to sustain around about 120-200MB/s.

So it would need to be a highend FPGA/Raid, but the whole thing could
probs be had for around about 1000 + disks.



------
Regards,

Angus Hedger

Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97
 
Old 09-18-2010, 09:55 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On 18/09/10 19:10, Angus Hedger wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:51:21 +1000
> Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The key is legitimate (confirmed by Intel) - what has been
>> misreported is that the key is used for encrypting the contents of
>> the disk... the disks are encrypted using AACS, it's the stream from
>> the player to the screen that is encrypted with HDCP.
>> The key (I want it printed on a bedsheet) is most likely to turn up
>> in a FPGA board, to be used by people wanting to rip the stream (need
>> fast RAID and a few TB of space).
> You would need around about 1TB of space for 1 movie uncompressed and
> the FPGA/raid would need to be able to sustain around about 120-200MB/s.
>
> So it would need to be a highend FPGA/Raid, but the whole thing could
> probs be had for around about 1000 + disks.
>
>
>
> ------
> Regards,
>
> Angus Hedger
>
> Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97

Agreed (though I've no idea what a UK (?) pound is worth. 1920 x 1080 x
24 bits per pixel x 24 fps = 145MB/sec (not allowing for audio)
I suspect there would only be two types of user for the key - vendors of
home entertainment systems "might" become a market (though they already
use a system to bypass restrictions on projectors), and commercial
pirating operations (the ones who actually press disks). Though the
articles I've read all talk about pirates I suspect the reporters are
just *cough* wrong (pre-release pirate material is copied from studio
prior to encryption).
I recall reading an article by a Google engineer where he spoke of a
(Linux) system using multiple off-the-shelf computers with software (?)
RAID to achieve near-RAM speed disk access - and an evaluation FPGA
card from www.xilinx.com is fairly cheap...

With reference to the original posters question - maybe, just maybe, the
key might become part of a driver to allow any display to display a
stream from a blueray player... but I won't be writing it. I'm very
happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy to
hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd.

Cheers



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Old 09-18-2010, 11:00 AM
Angus Hedger
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:55:46 +1000
Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippy>
> Agreed (though I've no idea what a UK (?) pound is worth.

Yup, UK pound, 1.00 GBP = 1.56323 USD give or take

>1920 x 1080
> x 24 bits per pixel x 24 fps = 145MB/sec (not allowing for audio)

Yeh, something like that, so with a good software raid and some good
disks that shouldnt be a problem.

> I suspect there would only be two types of user for the key - vendors
> of home entertainment systems "might" become a market (though they
> already use a system to bypass restrictions on projectors), and
> commercial pirating operations (the ones who actually press disks).
> Though the articles I've read all talk about pirates I suspect the
> reporters are just *cough* wrong (pre-release pirate material is
> copied from studio prior to encryption).
> I recall reading an article by a Google engineer where he spoke of a
> (Linux) system using multiple off-the-shelf computers with software
> (?) RAID to achieve near-RAM speed disk access - and an evaluation
> FPGA card from www.xilinx.com is fairly cheap...

> With reference to the original posters question - maybe, just maybe,
> the key might become part of a driver to allow any display to display
> a stream from a blueray player... but I won't be writing it. I'm very
> happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy
> to hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd.

You could build a subsystem that took the HDCP protected content from
the BR drive and passed it in the clear to the video output.

One of the biggest markets I can see is a small "repeater" box that
sits between the output from the BR player and the screen, which
passes a non HDCP signal to non certified screens, eg older but high
ress ones.

In the end, its not really about BR, its about any content, and
breaking the end to end encryption.

http://xkcd.com/129/



> Cheers

------
Regards,

Angus Hedger

Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97
 
Old 09-18-2010, 08:04 PM
Mark Allums
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On 9/18/2010 4:55 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:

I'm very
happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy to
hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd.



This bears some explanation. Are you watching stuff from Blu-Ray on a
Debian machine? How? What is the process?



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Old 09-19-2010, 11:10 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?

On 19/09/10 06:04, Mark Allums wrote:
> On 9/18/2010 4:55 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> I'm very
>> happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy to
>> hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd.
>
>
> This bears some explanation. Are you watching stuff from Blu-Ray on a
> Debian machine? How? What is the process?
>
>
PAU supported video, blu-ray player, makemkv, vlc, google ;-p

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