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Old 09-17-2010, 06:40 AM
Bret Busby
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Scott Ferguson wrote:



.................................................. ..



I understood that some of the functionality
(subroutines/modules/whatever) did not comply with the Debian
philosophy, and so were removed, to make the resultant applications
compliant with the Debian philosophy.

Mozilla Corp. (as opposed to Mozilla Foundation) took offence at:-

* Debian backporting security fixes to older versions of
Firefox/Iceweasel
* *at Debian allowing users to change search engines and make other
modifications*

, and insisted the use of the Firefox name is permitted only if
accompanied by its logo, icons, and other artwork (which is in breach of
the Debian Free Software Guidlines).

Long story short, icons, artwork, logo, and icons changed in the Debian
version (Icecat is another story).
So - reduced funtionality in Iceweasel - emphatically no. In fact
Iceweasel has more functionality than Firefox.
Feel free to look it up for yourself - the references are on this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel

Cheers



Please note: in an effort to trim the message to which I am responding,
I cut most of it out, apart from the stuff above, and the stuff above
"Mozilla Corp", above, was posted by me, and from there down, was posted
by Scott (to avoid confusion about misquoting).


What about the differences between iceape and Seamonkey?

Do they have the same funtionality?

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

.................................................. ..


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Old 09-17-2010, 07:21 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On 17/09/10 16:40, Bret Busby wrote:
> <snip> read that... (scott) </snip>
> Please note: in an effort to trim the message to which I am
> responding, I cut most of it out, apart from the stuff above, and the
> stuff above "Mozilla Corp", above, was posted by me, and from there
> down, was posted by Scott (to avoid confusion about misquoting).
>
> What about the differences between iceape and Seamonkey?
>
> Do they have the same funtionality?
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..............
>
...and I cut it further :-)

Similar story to Iceweasel (note the lower-case w!) and Firefox.
(Going from memory here - so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Once apon a time there was Netscape suite - which became Mozilla suite
(a pyrrhic victory!).... which became Seamonkey - due to restrictions
placed on it by the Mozilla Corporation, Debian produced the Iceape
version.
That's a little of the history.

Differences:- logos, icons, names etc - plus Iceape is slightly more
configurable (user-agent etc.) and security patches to older versions
are unaffected by Mozilla freezes.
Functionality:- slightly more with Iceape - but I haven't noticed any
difference in performance.

Now - IceWeasel and Iceweasel are/were not the same thing.... but that's
another story.

Hope that helps Bret, Cheers


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Old 09-17-2010, 01:14 PM
Kelly Clowers
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 00:21, Scott Ferguson
<prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:
> *On 17/09/10 16:40, Bret Busby wrote:
>> <snip> read that... (scott) </snip>
>> Please note: in an effort to trim the message to which I am
>> responding, I cut most of it out, apart from the stuff above, and the
>> stuff above "Mozilla Corp", above, was posted by me, and from there
>> down, was posted by Scott (to avoid confusion about misquoting).
>>
>> What about the differences between iceape and Seamonkey?
>>
>> Do they have the same funtionality?
>>
>> --
>> Bret Busby
>> Armadale
>> West Australia
>> ..............
>>
> ...and I cut it further :-)
>
> Similar story to Iceweasel (note the lower-case w!) and Firefox.
> (Going from memory here - so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> Once apon a time there was Netscape suite - which became Mozilla suite

In spirit only. Netscape 5 would have been a continuation of 4's code base,
but they tossed it out and wrote Gecko from scratch. The browser built on
Gecko was called Mozilla (which had been the Netscape code name since
forever), later it was called Mozilla Suite to distinguish it from other Mozilla
browsers.

> (a pyrrhic victory!)....
What?

> which became Seamonkey - due to restrictions
> placed on it by the Mozilla Corporation, *Debian produced the Iceape
> version.
> That's a little of the history.
>
> Differences:- logos, icons, names etc - plus Iceape is slightly more
> configurable (user-agent etc.) and security patches to older versions
> are unaffected by Mozilla freezes.
> Functionality:- slightly more with Iceape - but I haven't noticed any
> difference in performance.

Although the current version of SeaMonkey has more features than
the old version that is Iceape

Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Old 09-17-2010, 01:58 PM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On 17/09/10 23:14, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 00:21, Scott Ferguson
> <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>> (Going from memory here - so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>>
>> Once apon a time there was Netscape suite - which became Mozilla suite
> In spirit only. Netscape 5 would have been a continuation of 4's code base,
> but they tossed it out and wrote Gecko from scratch. The browser built on
> Gecko was called Mozilla (which had been the Netscape code name since
> forever), later it was called Mozilla Suite to distinguish it from other Mozilla
> browsers.

*nod. Thank you.

>> (a pyrrhic victory!)....
> What?

Rebirth from the ashes - Phoenix had complications so Firefox was chosen
to symbolise the victorious rebirth of, um, - the spirit/ghost of
Netscape(?).
Supposedly the revenge of Netscape on fnord Microsoft. (anecdote)

>> which became Seamonkey - due to restrictions
>> placed on it by the Mozilla Corporation, Debian produced the Iceape
>> version.
>> That's a little of the history.
>>
>> Differences:- logos, icons, names etc - plus Iceape is slightly more
>> configurable (user-agent etc.) and security patches to older versions
>> are unaffected by Mozilla freezes.
>> Functionality:- slightly more with Iceape - but I haven't noticed any
>> difference in performance.
> Although the current version of SeaMonkey has more features than
> the old version that is Iceape
>
> Cheers,
> Kelly Clowers
>
>
I must be missing something there Kelly, I confess to very little use of
either (mostly Iceape), but a quick check shows that we deploy both
Iceape and Seamonkey (which implies a great deal of similarity), and
both are the same version number (2.0.8 currently). What features does
SeaMonkey have that Iceape doesn't?
I can't find a feature list for Iceape - but then I can't see anything
on http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/features that Iceape doesn't
do... and I've seen nothing in the Iceape lists to indicate that the
reasons for the split have vanished (backporting of security patches, etc).

On a slightly (more) off-topic question - does any one know how fnord
Ubuntu gets around the Mozilla Corp. restrictions with Firefox?

Cheers


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Old 09-18-2010, 02:52 AM
Bret Busby
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Scott Ferguson wrote:




(a pyrrhic victory!)....

What?


Rebirth from the ashes - Phoenix had complications so Firefox was chosen
to symbolise the victorious rebirth of, um, - the spirit/ghost of
Netscape(?).
Supposedly the revenge of Netscape on fnord Microsoft. (anecdote)




The story of the rising from the ashes (the nature of a phoenix), is
unrelated to a Pyrrhic Victory.


A Pyrrhic Victory is when one side wins a battle but loses the war.

Not trying to be argumentative - just trying to give the correct meaning
of the term "Pyrrhic Victory".


"A little learning is a dangerous thing.
Drink deep, or drink not, from the Pierian Spring"
- Alexander Pope; "An Essay On Criticsm" (1709)

(
More official (?) version:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the
Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and
drinking largely sobers us again."

)

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

.................................................. ..


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Old 09-18-2010, 06:15 AM
Alex
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On a slightly (more) off-topic question - does any one know how fnord

Ubuntu gets around the Mozilla Corp. restrictions with Firefox?

I know that Ubuntu's Firefox install comes with an addon named "Ubuntu Firefox Modifications" - I assume they just use that for all their changes. IIRC the FF branding is also in a seperate package.
 
Old 09-18-2010, 06:33 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Iceape/Seamonkey and Iceweasel/Firefox - was Straw poll: What browser do you use?

On 18/09/10 12:52, Bret Busby wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
>>
>>>> (a pyrrhic victory!)....
>>> What?
>>
>> Rebirth from the ashes - Phoenix had complications so Firefox was chosen
>> to symbolise the victorious rebirth of, um, - the spirit/ghost of
>> Netscape(?).
>> Supposedly the revenge of Netscape on fnord Microsoft. (anecdote)
>>
>>
>
> The story of the rising from the ashes (the nature of a phoenix), is
> unrelated to a Pyrrhic Victory.
>
> A Pyrrhic Victory is when one side wins a battle but loses the war.

fnord Microsoft drives Netscape out of business to give greater market
share to IE. Netscape releases source code which eventually contributes
to IE losing market share... to which it could be said - that another
such victory (by Microsoft) would bring them undone. I'm paraphrasing
"Another such victory and I am undone." - which is (one of) the quotes
attributed to Pyrrhus.
Disclaimer:- if I'm right it's because I remember the quotes of others
correctly.

>
> Not trying to be argumentative - just trying to give the correct
> meaning of the term "Pyrrhic Victory".

No offence or argument taken.

>
> "A little learning is a dangerous thing.
> Drink deep, or drink not, from the Pierian Spring"
> - Alexander Pope; "An Essay On Criticsm" (1709)
>
> (
> More official (?) version:
>
> "A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the
> Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and
> drinking largely sobers us again."
> )
>

We're going back 30+ years, but, when I was studying (and I don't
remember much Pope) we had to learn the Satyricon (a little earlier than
Pope), and this much I do remember "This is the armour of genius–,
Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring, Only then pour out your
heart" (apropos of nothing).
Either way - Macedonia is a hell of a long way from the USA ;-p

> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..............
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
> you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
> Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
> "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
> A Trilogy In Four Parts",
> written by Douglas Adams,
> published by Pan Books, 1992
>
> .................................................. ..
>
>


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