Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates that would
affect end users?
For example, the recent massive update on the sid repo side, I know it is
the natural thing to come, but would still like to be informed ahead of
time than get caught offhand.
I used to read such info *here and there*, debian-announce, or in sidux
forum, which were exceptionally good in terms of delivering such
warnings. However, since I'm not interested in sidux any more, I stopped
reading its forum, because the S/N ratio is now too low to me.
I hope that there is a *central place* to get such info, and I hope that
it is here in debian user mlist, since it's about end users. I.e., I hope
that all major/minor Debian updates that will have some impact on end
users can be cross-posted here.
Any DD here can help me forward my request to proper places? -- I know
ideally a *nobody* pop into debian-devel and shout out the above request
loud should work, but in reality. . .
PS. comments welcome, but please don't flame. My only intention is to
make Debian better. Having their end users better informed is one thing
that I think Debian can improve upon.
Thanks
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08-25-2010, 11:21 PM
"s. keeling"
Debian updates worth to follow as a normal user
T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com>:
>
> Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates that would
> affect end users?
>
> For example, the recent massive update on the sid repo side, I know it is
I think it's about this time that some jerk pipes up and says
production machines serving users should be running stable, the raison
d'etre of debian. Sorry.
I watch debian-mentors for interesting news.
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08-26-2010, 02:06 AM
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
Debian updates worth to follow as a normal user
s. keeling wrote:
> T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com>:
>>
>> Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates that would
>> affect end users?
>>
>> For example, the recent massive update on the sid repo side, I know it
>> is
>
> I think it's about this time that some jerk pipes up and says
> production machines serving users should be running stable, the raison
> d'etre of debian. Sorry.
>
Here you go! Production machines serving users should be running stable!
That's not a joke. There is a reason why Debian 'releases' stable.
raju
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08-26-2010, 06:01 AM
Andrei Popescu
Debian updates worth to follow as a normal user
On Mi, 25 aug 10, 21:49:28, T o n g wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates that would
> affect end users?
weather.debian.net
Unstable is sunny right now for amd64, but if you go into details you'll
see that a lot of apt-related packages are uninstallable.
Regards,
Andrei
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08-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Joe
Debian updates worth to follow as a normal user
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
s. keeling wrote:
T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com>:
Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates that would
affect end users?
For example, the recent massive update on the sid repo side, I know it
is
I think it's about this time that some jerk pipes up and says
production machines serving users should be running stable, the raison
d'etre of debian. Sorry.
Here you go! Production machines serving users should be running stable!
That's not a joke. There is a reason why Debian 'releases' stable.
Indeed so, but for that to happen, a lot of people must do
production-type work on sid and testing. How else do the bugs get reported?
What would probably help in that process would be some kind of organised
rollback of the last batch of updates, without having to do a full
backup-restore of the whole OS. Restore Points, anyone?
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Joe <joe@jretrading.com>:
> Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> > s. keeling wrote:
> >> T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com>:
> >>
> >>> Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates
> >>> that would affect end users?
> >>
> >> I think it's about this time that some jerk pipes up and says
> >> production machines serving users should be running stable, the
> >> raison d'etre of debian. Sorry.
> >
> > Here you go! Production machines serving users should be running stable!
>
> Indeed so, but for that to happen, a lot of people must do
> production-type work on sid and testing. How else do the bugs get
> reported?
Users don't know how to report bugs. Hell, I often fsck it up, and
I've been running Linux since '93.
> What would probably help in that process would be some kind of
> organised rollback of the last batch of updates, without having to
> do a full backup-restore of the whole OS. Restore Points, anyone?
Buy a Mac.
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08-27-2010, 07:53 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
Debian updates worth to follow as a normal user
In <i573lc$sat$1@speranza.aioe.org>, s. keeling wrote:
>Joe <joe@jretrading.com>:
>> Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
>> > s. keeling wrote:
>> >> T o n g <mlist4suntong@yahoo.com>:
>> >>> Where is the recommended place to read about Debian updates
>> >>> that would affect end users?
>> >>
>> >> I think it's about this time that some jerk pipes up and says
>> >> production machines serving users should be running stable, the
>> >> raison d'etre of debian. Sorry.
>> >
>> > Here you go! Production machines serving users should be running stable!
>>
>> Indeed so, but for that to happen, a lot of people must do
>> production-type work on sid and testing. How else do the bugs get
>> reported?
>
>Users don't know how to report bugs. Hell, I often fsck it up, and
>I've been running Linux since '93.
Production systems shouldn't be running testing/unstable. Your clients/users
probably don't know or care what a "Debian" is. Your administrator(s) should,
and should be capable of reporting bugs.
Testing/unstable is good for, well, testing systems (or VMs). These can fail
without impacting users and you can file bugs with Debian to get issues
addressed before they become an issue in stable. Every so often, you should
"throw away" your testing system, close a production system, and upgrade to
testing -- to test the upgrade path, and file bugs on it. Of course, you'll
do this (at least) a couple of times on release week to write and test the
final upgrade procedure so you can move from oldstable to stable.
>> What would probably help in that process would be some kind of
>> organised rollback of the last batch of updates, without having to
>> do a full backup-restore of the whole OS. Restore Points, anyone?
>
>Buy a Mac.
Well, actually, this is possible under certain Linux setups, but no tool
really does it. The process would go something like this:
1. Freeze all filesystems. This makes them sync to "disk", and causes writes
to "hang" temporarily.
2. Take an LVM snapshot of each file system.
3. Thaw all filesystems. Writes will now finish, write caching begins again.
(Your LVM snapshots now serve as a restore point.)
4. Do package manager actions.
You can roll-back by restoring from the snapshots. Keeping multiple "restore
points" around can poorly affect performance and boot times, so only a few
should be kept around. When you do a restore, you will *lose* *everything*
that happened since the "restore point" was taken. Depending on how early you
catch issues, this may not be much of a problem. You can do selective
restoring, but that can cause problems for the same reasons downgrades cause
problems; new packages may upgrade data or configuration to a format the old
package does not understand -- it is impossible to "update" the old package
with this information, the old package is already "in the wild".
(LVM isn't the only way to do this; btrfs and some other file systems support
snapshots internally, and those are usually less of a performance issue)
If you are thinking of implementing this but then not restoring /home (.e.g;
*any* writable file system can have the same arguments made for and against
it), you might as well just downgrade packages instead.
aptitude/apt/dpkg/debconf can be queried for what packages are installed and
how they were configured and such information can treated as a snapshot --
official packages of any age (with very few exceptions; at least since the
service started) can be had from snapshot.debian.org.
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Debian updates worth to follow as a normal user
