FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:31 PM
Mike Viau
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

Hello List,

I was just wondering what some of the debian community users has been experiencing in regards to the new Western Digital 4K Advanced format drives? Has any one tried using one of these drives on the 2.6.26 (64/32 bit) kernel shipped with Lenny stable? How about with the 2.6.32 (64/32 bit) kernel shipped with squeeze testing?

Is the support more dependant on the kernel or does debian already support these drives?

Thanks in advance.



Specifications for the WD Caviar Green (Advanced Format) SATA internal
hard drives


http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5324&p_created=1263858658&p_si d=xbnV-uVj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_lva=& p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTk2LDE5NiZwX3Byb2RzPTIyNywyOTQmcF9jYXR zPSZwX3B2PTIuMjk0JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topv iew=1


-M



Your Photo on Bing.ca: You Could WIN on Canada Day! Submit a Photo Now!
 
Old 07-03-2010, 04:36 PM
Mike Viau
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

Does this mkfs work around work to preserve the performance of the drive? By using the -b 4096 (to signify the 4k sectors) when creating partitions such as:

mkfs -t ext4 -b 4096 /dev/sda1

Is there any implication for mounting a partition formatted with the above command (e.g: mounting in other systems)?

Is there anything in fdisk that one should do to signify 4K sectors for partitions as well?

I understand that added layers to the partitions such as drive encryption and/or LVM volumes must also be setup to use 4K sectors too so that performance is not lost.

Thanks.


-M




From: viaum@sheridanc.on.ca
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 17:31:22 -0400













Hello List,

I was just wondering what some of the debian community users has been experiencing in regards to the new Western Digital 4K Advanced format drives? Has any one tried using one of these drives on the 2.6.26 (64/32 bit) kernel shipped with Lenny stable? How about with the 2.6.32 (64/32 bit) kernel shipped with squeeze testing?

Is the support more dependant on the kernel or does debian already support these drives?

Thanks in advance.



Specifications for the WD Caviar Green (Advanced Format) SATA internal
hard drives


http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5324&p_created=1263858658&p_si d=xbnV-uVj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_lva=& p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTk2LDE5NiZwX3Byb2RzPTIyNywyOTQmcF9jYXR zPSZwX3B2PTIuMjk0JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topv iew=1


-M



Your Photo on Bing.ca: You Could WIN on Canada Day! Submit a Photo Now!
 
Old 07-03-2010, 05:01 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

I think that the partitioning tool (fdisk, cfdisk, parted, ...) is
what is really important. That is because filesystems already use
4KB block sizes.


Possibly also fsck.

There was a recent IBM DeveloperWorks article on this very topic.

On 07/03/2010 11:36 AM, Mike Viau wrote:

Does this mkfs work around work to preserve the performance of the
drive? By using the -b 4096 (to signify the 4k sectors) when creating
partitions such as:

mkfs -t ext4 -b 4096 /dev/sda1

Is there any implication for mounting a partition formatted with the
above command (e.g: mounting in other systems)?

Is there anything in fdisk that one should do to signify 4K sectors for
partitions as well?

I understand that added layers to the partitions such as drive
encryption and/or LVM volumes must also be setup to use 4K sectors too
so that performance is not lost.

Thanks.


-M




------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: viaum@sheridanc.on.ca
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than
512 bytes)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 17:31:22 -0400

Hello List,

I was just wondering what some of the debian community users has been
experiencing in regards to the new Western Digital 4K Advanced format
drives? Has any one tried using one of these drives on the 2.6.26 (64/32
bit) kernel shipped with Lenny stable? How about with the 2.6.32 (64/32
bit) kernel shipped with squeeze testing?

Is the support more dependant on the kernel or does debian already
support these drives?

Thanks in advance.



Specifications for the WD Caviar Green (Advanced Format) SATA internal
hard drives


http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5324&p_created=1263858658&p_si d=xbnV-uVj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_lva=& p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTk2LDE5NiZwX3Byb2RzPTIyNywyOTQmcF9jYXR zPSZwX3B2PTIuMjk0JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topv iew=1
<http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=5324&p_created=1263858658&p_si d=xbnV-uVj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_lva=& p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTk2LDE5NiZwX3Byb2RzPTIyNywyOTQmcF9jYXR zPSZwX3B2PTIuMjk0JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topv iew=1>


-M


<http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734380>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Photo on Bing.ca: You Could WIN on Canada Day! Submit a Photo Now!
<http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734380>



--
Seek truth from facts.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Archive: 4C2F6CF4.2040003@cox.net">http://lists.debian.org/4C2F6CF4.2040003@cox.net
 
Old 07-03-2010, 06:40 PM
Mike Viau
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:01:40 -0500 <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I think that the partitioning tool (fdisk, cfdisk, parted, ...) is
> what is really important. That is because filesystems already use
> 4KB block sizes.
>
> Possibly also fsck.
>
> There was a recent IBM DeveloperWorks article on this very topic.
>

This I take it?

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-4kb-sector-disks/index.html

Enter for a chance to get your town photo on Bing.ca! Submit a Photo Now!
 
Old 07-03-2010, 07:20 PM
Stan Hoeppner
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

Ron Johnson put forth on 7/3/2010 12:01 PM:
> I think that the partitioning tool (fdisk, cfdisk, parted, ...) is what
> is really important.

It is. The first partition must be created on an even 4k sector aligned
boundary to avoid the performance hit of unaligned access. However, from all
I've read up to around March 2010, Linux, its partitioning tools, and the
documentation on how to use the with 4k drives aren't ready ready for prime
time yet. I'd avoid 4k sector drives until all the dust settles.

> That is because filesystems already use 4KB block
> sizes.

This is unrelated. FS block size != sector size. This discussion is about
disk hardware sector size.

> Possibly also fsck.

fsck is ignorant of hw sector size.

--
Stan


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4C2F8D90.6070609@hardwarefreak.com">http://lists.debian.org/4C2F8D90.6070609@hardwarefreak.com
 
Old 07-03-2010, 07:30 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

On 07/03/2010 01:40 PM, Mike Viau wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:01:40 -0500 <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I think that the partitioning tool (fdisk, cfdisk, parted, ...) is
> what is really important. That is because filesystems already use
> 4KB block sizes.
>
> Possibly also fsck.
>
> There was a recent IBM DeveloperWorks article on this very topic.
>

This I take it?

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-4kb-sector-disks/index.html



Yuppers.

--
Seek truth from facts.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Archive: 4C2F8FE7.4010504@cox.net">http://lists.debian.org/4C2F8FE7.4010504@cox.net
 
Old 07-03-2010, 07:36 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

On 07/03/2010 02:20 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

Ron Johnson put forth on 7/3/2010 12:01 PM:

I think that the partitioning tool (fdisk, cfdisk, parted, ...) is what
is really important.


It is. The first partition must be created on an even 4k sector aligned
boundary to avoid the performance hit of unaligned access. However, from all
I've read up to around March 2010, Linux, its partitioning tools, and the
documentation on how to use the with 4k drives aren't ready ready for prime
time yet. I'd avoid 4k sector drives until all the dust settles.



Even with older tools, there are ways to properly align partitions.
You've just got to do a bit of study beforehand.



That is because filesystems already use 4KB block
sizes.


This is unrelated. FS block size != sector size.


It is when you use a 4KB drive!!!!


This discussion is about
disk hardware sector size.



Right. But not every geek knows everything about every topic.
Thus, OP's question was valid.



Possibly also fsck.


fsck is ignorant of hw sector size.



I thought so.

--
Seek truth from facts.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Archive: 4C2F912E.9000208@cox.net">http://lists.debian.org/4C2F912E.9000208@cox.net
 
Old 07-03-2010, 08:09 PM
Stan Hoeppner
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

Ron Johnson put forth on 7/3/2010 2:36 PM:

>> This is unrelated. FS block size != sector size.
>
> It is when you use a 4KB drive!!!!

Not according to man on Stable:

mkfs.xfs [ -b block_size ] ... [ -s sector_size ] [ -L label ] [ -N ] device

-b block_size_options

This option specifies the fundamental block size of the filesystem. The
valid block_size_options are: log=value or size=value and only one can be
supplied. The block size is specified either as a base two logarithm value
with log=, or in bytes with size=. The default value is 4096 bytes (4 KiB),
the minimum is 512, and the maximum is 65536 (64 KiB). XFS on Linux currently
only supports pagesize or smaller blocks.

-s sector_size
This option specifies the fundamental sector size of the filesystem. The
sector_size is specified either as a value in bytes with size=value or as a
base two logarithm value with log=value. The default sector_size is 512 bytes.
The minimum value for sector size is 512; the maximum is 32768 (32 KiB). The
sector_size must be a power of 2 size and cannot be made larger than the
filesystem block size.

--
Stan



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 4C2F9915.7050500@hardwarefreak.com">http://lists.debian.org/4C2F9915.7050500@hardwarefreak.com
 
Old 07-04-2010, 04:04 AM
Mike Viau
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

On the link http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-4kb-sector-disks/index.html

[snip]
Tip: If you want to dual-boot between Linux and an
older operating system that
requires cylinder alignment, try aligning the starts of all your
partitions on multiples
of eight cylinders. This translates to 8-sector alignment for optimum
disk performance as well as cylinder alignment for the older operating
system.
[/snip]

It sounds like the term cylinders is used synonymously with sectors. Will this always be the case??


> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 15:09:57 -0500 <stan@hardwarefreak.com> wrote:
>
> Ron Johnson put forth on 7/3/2010 2:36 PM:
>
> >> This is unrelated. FS block size != sector size.
> >
> > It is when you use a 4KB drive!!!!
>
> Not according to man on Stable:
>
> mkfs.xfs [ -b block_size ] ... [ -s sector_size ] [ -L label ] [ -N ] device
>
> -b block_size_options
>
> This option specifies the fundamental block size of the filesystem. The
> valid block_size_options are: log=value or size=value and only one can be
> supplied. The block size is specified either as a base two logarithm value
> with log=, or in bytes with size=. The default value is 4096 bytes (4 KiB),
> the minimum is 512, and the maximum is 65536 (64 KiB). XFS on Linux currently
> only supports pagesize or smaller blocks.
>
> -s sector_size
> This option specifies the fundamental sector size of the filesystem. The
> sector_size is specified either as a value in bytes with size=value or as a
> base two logarithm value with log=value. The default sector_size is 512 bytes.
> The minimum value for sector size is 512; the maximum is 32768 (32 KiB). The
> sector_size must be a power of 2 size and cannot be made larger than the
> filesystem block size.
>
> --
> Stan
>
>

That seems like a very clean way to prepare a XFS file system that is aware of the 4096 byte sector size with the -s option. Its like away to override the 4096 byte sector size even if it gets read incorrectly as 512 by the /sys/block/sdX/queue/physical_block_size.

[snip]

In theory, the Linux kernel should return information on the physical
sector size in the /sys/block/sdX/queue/physical_block_size pseudo-file
and
on the logical sector size in the
/sys/block/sdX/queue/logical_block_size
pseudo-file, where sdX is your device's node name (normally sda, sdb,
and
so on). In practice, however, the physical block size information is
spurious, at least for the first generation of Western Digital Advanced
Format drives. Unfortunately, this means that disk utilities cannot
properly detect the presence of such disks.

[/snip]


-M

Look 'em in the eye: FREE Messenger video chat Chat Now!
 
Old 07-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Debian support on newer 4K Advanced format drives (rather than 512 bytes)

On 07/03/2010 03:09 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

Ron Johnson put forth on 7/3/2010 2:36 PM:


This is unrelated. FS block size != sector size.


It is when you use a 4KB drive!!!!


Not according to man on Stable:

mkfs.xfs [ -b block_size ] ... [ -s sector_size ] [ -L label ] [ -N ] device

-b block_size_options

This option specifies the fundamental block size of the filesystem. The
valid block_size_options are: log=value or size=value and only one can be
supplied. The block size is specified either as a base two logarithm value
with log=, or in bytes with size=. The default value is 4096 bytes (4 KiB),


Ok, shame on me for forgetting to use the word "default".


the minimum is 512, and the maximum is 65536 (64 KiB). XFS on Linux currently
only supports pagesize or smaller blocks.




--
Seek truth from facts.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Archive: 4C30852A.8080607@cox.net">http://lists.debian.org/4C30852A.8080607@cox.net
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:28 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org