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Old 07-02-2010, 06:45 PM
Arthur Machlas
 
Default First Debian Installation: totally brain-dead. Where do I go from here?

> On Vi, 02 iul 10, 00:49:53, Keith Mitchell wrote:
>> I decided to build a Linux box instead of emulating Linux using
>> VM-Ware under Windows. I heard Debian was the way to go. I have
>> created Red-Hat and Ubuntu Linux boxes in the past with no problems.

Who did you hear this from? Irrelevant, they are wrong. Debian is not
always the way to go. If you heard "sometimes Debian is the best way
to go", then I would agree with that.

>> This, my very first Debian installation, and it has been a total
>> nightmare!

You have two choices to "wake up" from this nightmare: Take the blue
pill, install RedHat, Ubuntu or use Windows. You wake up and believe
whatever you want to believe about Debain. Or take the red pill, with
a glass of humility, and see how far down the rabbit hole goes.

>> I then followed the instructions on the web-site for installing Debian
>> with internet connectivity.

Provide link.

>> The web instructions said burn a minimal CD, and download what you
>> need from the internet.
>>
>> 1. I downloaded the .iso file, and burnt a bootable-CD (not DVD).
>> 2. I used that CD and installed Debian. I now have a minimal and
>> totally brain-dead Linux installation.

Unlike many other distros, Debian does not ship with a brain as it
expects the user to provide one.

>> 3. There is no gcc compiler. There is no Firefox web browser.

What is installed depends on how you installed it. If the instructions
you read really did only say what you quoted, then they are not very
good instructions. You should provide a link so that we might provide
you with alternate instructions.

Also Debian does not have "Firefox", it has "Iceweasel".

>> 4. I went back to the Debian web-site for instructions on how to
>> proceed from here. There were no instructions for how to proceed from
>> here. Even MinGW on Windows has a minimal Linux working set. How do I
>> download a file working-set without requesting each file one by one?

During installation there is something called tasksel. You check a box
that says "desktop" and it installs some sensible things.

>> 5. Right now it seems my only option is using Gatesware Windows to
>> download an Ubuntu distribution, a distribution that does work, use
>> the .iso file to create a CD or DVD, and blow away the Debian crap
>> that does not work.

It appears you thought of at least one other option before considering
that one, which unfortunately involved this mailing list.

>>
>> Any suggestions before I blow Debian away?

Blow away Ahab, blow it all away.

>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Keith.

Anytime,

Arthur


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Old 07-02-2010, 07:38 PM
Keith Mitchell
 
Default First Debian Installation: totally brain-dead. Where do I go from here?

Thanks Guys:

Looks like a serious operator malfunction on my part. My first time
with an internet install. In the past, I had a CD with the whole
distribution on it.

First, Sorry. I did not wish to infer that Debian itself is
brain-dead. I meant the minimal installation that I myself created
with almost no applications installed is brain dead.

I wrongly assumed that once installation was complete, I would easily
find a package manager that would finish downloading all packages that
I need.

I spend most of my life on Windows, but prefer to use Open Source
software that runs everywhere. Firefox and Thunderbird do have
copyrighted stuff, however, Iceweasel did not have a Windows
installation, otherwise I would be using it on Windows.

Looks like the only solution is to blow things out and try again from scratch.

Sorry if I broke web-protocol. I do not know what the protocol is here.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Keith.


On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Alan Chandler
<alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> On 02/07/10 08:46, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>>
>> [Please reply to debian-user only. If you are not subscribed please ask
>> for CCs]
>>
>> (full quote for context)
>>
>> On Vi, 02 iul 10, 00:49:53, Keith Mitchell wrote:
>>>
>>> I decided to build a Linux box instead of emulating Linux using
>>> VM-Ware under Windows. I heard Debian was the way to go. I have
>>> created Red-Hat and Ubuntu Linux boxes in the past with no problems.
>>>
>>> This, my very first Debian installation, and it has been a total
>>> nightmare! I created a dual-boot installation on my ancient Gateway
>>> dual-processor workstation as I used to have in the past. This time it
>>> is XP and Debian. I reassigned one full 70-GB SCSI drive previously
>>> formatted with an XP NTFS file system to Linux plus another 5-GB of
>>> swap-space on another physical SCSI drive (for performance). This I
>>> know is OK.
>
> What network connection do you have?
>
>>>
>>> I then followed the instructions on the web-site for installing Debian
>>> with internet connectivity.
>>
>> Did the network setup step during the installation work?
>>
>>> The web instructions said burn a minimal CD, and download what you
>>> need from the internet.
>>>
>>> 1. I downloaded the .iso file, and burnt a bootable-CD (not DVD).
>>> 2. I used that CD and installed Debian. I now have a minimal and
>>> totally brain-dead Linux installation.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "brain-dead". *Does it connect to the
> internet?
>
> Can you look in /etc/apt/sources.list and tell us what is there. *There was
> a question during installation about selecting network mirrors, and it
> should have written the info into this file.
>
>
>>
>> It very much depends on the answer to the question above. If your
>> connection worked during install you probably didn't select any "task"
>> (like "Desktop"). If your connection didn't work if couldn't have
>> downloaded all the needed packages and you might need DVD1 to get a
>> decent install.
>>
>
> To be a bit clearer. *There is a process during install to select some
> standard configurations - if you did this you should have a lot of what is
> missing. If you didn't - no matter - you can select additional packages
> later. *If your /etc/apt/sources.list file is sensible then you just run
>
> aptitude
>
> Once this is running - you can then search for packages by typing '/'
> followed by a pattern (normally just the name or partial name of a package
> you are searching for). *Aptitude should pick up and find the next entry
> that matches as you are typing. *Hit Enter to finish the search and then 'n'
> to just to the next entry matching the search.
>
> To install the ENTIRE gnome desktop for instance you just select 'gnome'. It
> then picks up all the dependencies and installs it for you (there is a much
> more normal subset called gnome-desktop-environment and I think there may
> even by a minimal)
>
>
>>> 3. There is no gcc compiler. There is no Firefox web browser.
>
> Firefox is called Iceweasel in Debian because of licencing issues. *Both
> would have been installed in a normal standard install if you had a network
> connection.
>
>>> 4. I went back to the Debian web-site for instructions on how to
>>> proceed from here. There were no instructions for how to proceed from
>>> here. Even MinGW on Windows has a minimal Linux working set. How do I
>>> download a file working-set without requesting each file one by one?
>>> 5. Right now it seems my only option is using Gatesware Windows to
>>> download an Ubuntu distribution, a distribution that does work, use
>>> the .iso file to create a CD or DVD, and blow away the Debian crap
>>> that does not work.
>
> Once you have even a minimal installation (which should not normally be the
> case) you can easily work from there. *No need to download anymore CD or DVD
> files provided the machine is connected to the internet. It is only when it
> is not that you have to rely on these other things.
>
>>>
>>> Any suggestions before I blow Debian away?
>
> Two
>
> 1) Ask for help on this list
> 2) Calm down and don't start with the assumption that Debian is brain dead.
> *Normally it isn't.
>
> --
> Alan Chandler
> http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
>
>


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Old 07-02-2010, 08:13 PM
Kent West
 
Default First Debian Installation: totally brain-dead. Where do I go from here?

On 07/02/2010 02:38 PM, Keith Mitchell wrote:

Thanks Guys:

Looks like a serious operator malfunction on my part. My first time
with an internet install. In the past, I had a CD with the whole
distribution on it.

First, Sorry. I did not wish to infer that Debian itself is
brain-dead. I meant the minimal installation that I myself created
with almost no applications installed is brain dead.

I wrongly assumed that once installation was complete, I would easily
find a package manager that would finish downloading all packages that
I need.

I spend most of my life on Windows, but prefer to use Open Source
software that runs everywhere. Firefox and Thunderbird do have
copyrighted stuff, however, Iceweasel did not have a Windows
installation, otherwise I would be using it on Windows.

Looks like the only solution is to blow things out and try again from scratch.

Sorry if I broke web-protocol. I do not know what the protocol is here.

Thanks to all for the feedback.



I haven't been following this thread, but I doubt that you broke
web-protocol.


And you don't need to blow things out and try again from scratch.

You simply have a minimal install. It's easy to add stuff.

For example, to add a text-based web browser, do (as root):

aptitude install lynx

or

aptitude install links

To install a text-based email reader:

aptitude install mutt

(Then to connect to an IMAP server, run "mutt -f {imap.gmail.com}Inbox",
substituting your IMAP server's address (actually, gmail won't work this
way, but some other IMAP servers will).)


To install a minimal X Window System:

aptitude install x-window-system-core

or to install a bit more complete X system:

aptitude install x-window-system

Then you can install a window manager:

aptitude install icewm

Maybe install another one:

aptitude install xfce4

and then configure X to start with one or the other by creating/editing
~/.xinitrc with the single line in it of:


icewm

or

xfce4-session (I think this is the correct line)

Or you can keep both in the .xinitrc file and just comment out the one
you don't want. (Don't forget to restart X when you change your window
manager.)


Of perhaps you want a full-blown KDE setup:

aptitude install kde

Or Gnome:

aptitude install gnome

(Or you can get both at the same time with "aptitude install kde gnome".)

Either of these will also install a graphical login screen, from which
you can select whichever window manager/environment (from those you have
installed) you want each time you log in.


You can also just run "aptitude" to start aptitude in a point-and-click
(text-only, no mouse) method.


Once you have X running, you can even install a graphical front-end to
aptitude - synaptic (aptitude install synaptic).


(You'll sometimes see references to apt-get instead of aptitude; they
both do the same thing, but aptitude is a bit newer and "better" in my
estimation; dselect is the even older package management system, but
you'll pro'lly never see it.)


You want iceweasel?

aptitude install iceweasel

You want gimp, openoffice.org, icedove (Thunderbird), and gramps?

aptitude install gimp openoffice icedove gramps

You want to search for a package?

aptitude search print | grep drivers

will search for any package mentioning "print" and "drivers"

You want to see details about a package?

aptitude show gramps

Hopefully this will give you enough to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.


--
Kent West<*)))><
http://kentwest.blogspot.com
Praise Yah! o/



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Old 07-02-2010, 08:47 PM
Mark
 
Default First Debian Installation: totally brain-dead. Where do I go from here?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Keith Mitchell <kpmitchell@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Guys:



Looks like a serious operator malfunction on my part. My first time

with an internet install. In the past, I had a CD with the whole

distribution on it.

This is something I haven't been able to wrap my head around yet.* It _seems_ from this email list that the preferred installation method is netinsall/minimal install.* Personally I only use CD or DVD images and this email thread is a good example why.* A CD is downloaded so quickly these days, most likely taking less time than you have spent/will spend trying to get the minimal install working.* I wonder if you download the CD .iso and install from that on this same machine, if you would* be having those problems.* Sure seems like an easier path than the one you're on, unless the point of your installation is to build from ground up and only install certain packages, but that's not how I've read your post.* If a user's goal is to install Debian and get it up and running with the least amount of headaches, it's tough to argue against installing from a CD or DVD image.


Just my $0.02, keep the change.*

Mark
 
Old 07-02-2010, 09:37 PM
Alan Chandler
 
Default First Debian Installation: totally brain-dead. Where do I go from here?

On 02/07/10 21:47, Mark wrote:

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Keith Mitchell <kpmitchell@gmail.com
<mailto:kpmitchell@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Guys:

Looks like a serious operator malfunction on my part. My first time
with an internet install. In the past, I had a CD with the whole
distribution on it.


This is something I haven't been able to wrap my head around yet. It
_seems_ from this email list that the preferred installation method is
netinsall/minimal install. Personally I only use CD or DVD images and
this email thread is a good example why. A CD is downloaded so quickly
these days, most likely taking less time than you have spent/will spend
trying to get the minimal install working. I wonder if you download the
CD .iso and install from that on this same machine, if you would be
having those problems. Sure seems like an easier path than the one
you're on, unless the point of your installation is to build from ground
up and only install certain packages, but that's not how I've read your
post. If a user's goal is to install Debian and get it up and running
with the least amount of headaches, it's tough to argue against
installing from a CD or DVD image.


I do too. I install the installer on a usb stick, copy the .iso of the
first CD on to it too, and install that right from the stick. The
Debian installer looks for a .iso image to install from.



--
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk


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Old 07-03-2010, 01:39 AM
Mark
 
Default First Debian Installation: totally brain-dead. Where do I go from here?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]
*
*If you use CDs you may have to keep

changing the CD. *The full set is now something like 11 is it not?

I have yet to need anything other than CD 1 or DVD 1 for installing.* So nothing gained there from a netinstall.

Mark

*
 

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