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Old 05-30-2010, 03:25 AM
Brian Marshall
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

Hi all,

Recently, I noticed that the date format in the output from "ls -l" has
changed in squeeze. Before, it used the ISO standard (2010-05-29 20:00)
but now it's started printing "May 29 20:00" or "May 29 2009" if it's
not the current year.

My locale, which hasn't changed in years, is en_US.UTF-8. If I run ls
with LC_TIME="ja_JP.UTF-8", I get the ISO format, so ls is still capable
of displaying it.

Two servers running lenny and a box running Ubuntu 10.04, all with the
en_US.UTF-8 locale, display the ISO format.

I suspect it's coreutils' fault, because while the version of the
locales package is about the same in Ubuntu and Debian (2.11 and 2.10),
coreutils is significantly newer in Debian (8.5 compared to 7.4).

Can anyone else confirm this issue? Is it a bug or a feature? How can I
get ls to print the ISO date format again?

Thanks,
Brian
 
Old 05-30-2010, 04:17 AM
Teemu Likonen
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

* 2010-05-29 20:25 (-0700), Brian Marshall wrote:

> Recently, I noticed that the date format in the output from "ls -l"
> has changed in squeeze. Before, it used the ISO standard (2010-05-29
> 20:00) but now it's started printing "May 29 20:00" or "May 29 2009"
> if it's not the current year.

> I suspect it's coreutils' fault, because while the version of the
> locales package is about the same in Ubuntu and Debian (2.11 and
> 2.10), coreutils is significantly newer in Debian (8.5 compared to
> 7.4).
>
> Can anyone else confirm this issue? Is it a bug or a feature? How can
> I get ls to print the ISO date format again?

Yes, the default has changed. You can change the default with TIME_STYLE
environment variable, like this:

export TIME_STYLE=long-iso

Related tips here:

http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/po4a/html/ch09.en.html#_customized_display_of_time_and_date

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Old 05-30-2010, 04:21 AM
Teemu Likonen
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

* 2010-05-30 07:17 (+0300), Teemu Likonen wrote:

> Related tips here:

Here's a better link which points to the Debian Reference manual:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/debian-reference.en.html#_customized_display_of_time_and_ date


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Old 05-30-2010, 05:58 AM
Brian Marshall
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:17:31AM +0300, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> * 2010-05-29 20:25 (-0700), Brian Marshall wrote:
>
> > Recently, I noticed that the date format in the output from "ls -l"
> > has changed in squeeze. Before, it used the ISO standard (2010-05-29
> > 20:00) but now it's started printing "May 29 20:00" or "May 29 2009"
> > if it's not the current year.

> Yes, the default has changed. You can change the default with TIME_STYLE
> environment variable, like this:
>
> export TIME_STYLE=long-iso

Thanks, this works.

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 07:21:31AM +0300, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Here's a better link which points to the Debian Reference manual:
>
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/debian-reference.en.html#_customized_display_of_time_and_ date

Thanks for the link.

Any idea why the default was changed? I guess it didn't really make
sense to change the date format based on whether it was an ISO-8859 or
UTF-8 locale? (en_US.ISO-8859, to my knowledge, has always used the date
format that en_US.UTF-8 is now using.)

Brian
 
Old 05-30-2010, 08:04 AM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

On Sat,29.May.10, 22:58:59, Brian Marshall wrote:
>
> Any idea why the default was changed? I guess it didn't really make
> sense to change the date format based on whether it was an ISO-8859 or
> UTF-8 locale? (en_US.ISO-8859, to my knowledge, has always used the date
> format that en_US.UTF-8 is now using.)

Why not? This way people using other languages now have a localized
date.

Regards,
Andrei
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:07 AM
Teemu Likonen
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

* 2010-05-29 22:58 (-0700), Brian Marshall wrote:

> Any idea why the default was changed?

No idea. Indeed, I think long-iso would be better default for this kind
of technical dates which are shown in tabular form. With fi_FI.UTF-8
locale the output of "ls -l" is difficult to read because the width of
the date column is not fixed. In practice TIME_STYLE=locale is not
usable at all (with "ls -l").

$ LC_TIME=fi_FI.UTF-8 TIME_STYLE=locale /bin/ls -l /

total 101
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 30.1. 21:55 bin
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 1024 25.5. 20:33 boot
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 16.8.2009 cdrom -> media/cdrom
drwxr-xr-x 17 root root 4200 30.5. 07:30 dev
drwxr-xr-x 122 root root 12288 30.5. 09:52 etc
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 1.5. 22:13 home
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 28 16.8.2009 initrd.img -> [...]
drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 12288 23.1. 16:23 lib
drwx------ 2 root root 16384 16.8.2009 lost+found
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 30.5. 06:58 media
drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 16.8.2009 mnt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 16.8.2009 opt
dr-xr-xr-x 124 root root 0 30.5. 06:58 proc
drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 9.5. 13:58 root
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 11.3. 20:16 sbin
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 16.9.2008 selinux
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 16.8.2009 srv
drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 0 30.5. 06:58 sys
drwxrwxrwt 16 root root 16384 30.5. 10:37 tmp
drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 4096 16.8.2009 usr
drwxr-xr-x 15 root root 4096 16.8.2009 var
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 16.8.2009 vmlinuz -> [...]


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Old 05-30-2010, 09:19 AM
Camaleˇn
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

On Sun, 30 May 2010 11:04:59 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> On Sat,29.May.10, 22:58:59, Brian Marshall wrote:
>>
>> Any idea why the default was changed? I guess it didn't really make
>> sense to change the date format based on whether it was an ISO-8859 or
>> UTF-8 locale? (en_US.ISO-8859, to my knowledge, has always used the
>> date format that en_US.UTF-8 is now using.)
>
> Why not? This way people using other languages now have a localized
> date.

Having an option to change the default is very good, but ISO date
representation is there precisely to avoid the date localization madness,
so I for one would also expect as default the using of ISO date standard.

Greetings,

--
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:44 AM
Nuno Magalhães
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:19, Camale├│n <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:

> Having an option to change the default is very good, but ISO date
> representation is there precisely to avoid the date localization madness,
> so I for one would also expect as default the using of ISO date standard.

+1 for ISO as default

In any case if locales were the reasoning, pt_PT.UTF-8 oughta be "30
Mai 2010" or something when it's actually just a translation from
english, "Mai 30 2010".

Is there a way to push things into changing back?

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Old 05-30-2010, 10:01 AM
Teemu Likonen
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

* 2010-05-30 10:44 (+0100), Nuno MagalhŃes wrote:

> +1 for ISO as default

> Is there a way to push things into changing back?

Use TIME_STYLE=long-iso or contact the GNU coreutils upstream. First
search their mailing list archives for related discussions:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/

Then maybe report about problems:

http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/faq/coreutils-faq.html#How-do-I-report-a-bug_003f

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Old 05-30-2010, 11:20 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default ls has stopped using the ISO date format

On 05/29/2010 11:17 PM, Teemu Likonen wrote:
[snip]


Yes, the default has changed. You can change the default with TIME_STYLE
environment variable, like this:

export TIME_STYLE=long-iso



Another method is the --time-style option. For example:

$ alias dir='ls -aFl --time-style=+"%F %T"'

$ dir 19*jpg
-rw------- 1 me me 158770 2007-09-25 23:15:08 19_20_Aircraft10.jpg
-rw------- 1 me me 114455 2007-09-25 23:15:26 19_20_Aircraft11.jpg
-rw------- 1 me me 139353 2007-09-25 23:13:45 19_20_Aircraft12.jpg
-rw------- 1 me me 85438 2007-09-25 23:15:57 19_20_Aircraft6.jpg

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