On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au> wrote:
> my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all the threaded
> emails. I read them in date/time order, if I follow a thread from begging to
> end, then all i should have to do is read the top posts, but if they bottom
> posted, then as the thread grows I find I have to scroll further down, re
> reading the same information I have read in the previous email.
>

Too bad the whole world doesn't use your mail reader. The whole world
should be forced to use the same mail reader, and the same office suit
and web browser while we're at it. On the same OS. Oh, wait, Microsoft
_is_ trying to accomplish that.

Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
you?

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au> wrote:

> my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
> the threaded emails. I read them in date/time order, if I follow
> a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
> the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
> I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
> information I have read in the previous email.

Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.

--
Raquel
================================================== ==========
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men.
--Abraham Lincoln


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Raquel(raquel@thericehouse.net) is reported to have said:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
> Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au> wrote:
>
> > my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
> > the threaded emails. I read them in date/time order, if I follow
> > a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
> > the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
> > I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
> > information I have read in the previous email.
>
> Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.

Amen!

WT

--
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__________________________________________________ _____


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On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:52:59AM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:13:22PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> > >>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> > >>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> > >>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?

The latter.

> > > Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> > > others read right->left, all read top->bottom. None read bottom->top.
> > >> [flame on]
> > >> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having to go
> >
> > Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
> > to top?
> so you are advocating top posting ?

IMHO, trying to argue this point based on "rational" or objective
reasoning, that one way is truly, obviously, and naturally "better"
than another, is fraught with hazard, since someone *will* argue with
equal validity (to them at least) that their way is better.

In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette. The practice
varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
right(1), and have a good day!

Ken

(1) the attribution from the OP is missing in this message, I think.
--
Ken Irving, fnkci+debianuser@uaf.edu


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On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 01:10:00AM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au> wrote:
> > my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all the threaded
> > emails. I read them in date/time order, if I follow a thread from begging to
> > end, then all i should have to do is read the top posts, but if they bottom
> > posted, then as the thread grows I find I have to scroll further down, re
> > reading the same information I have read in the previous email.
> >
>
> Too bad the whole world doesn't use your mail reader. The whole world
> should be forced to use the same mail reader, and the same office suit
> and web browser while we're at it. On the same OS. Oh, wait, Microsoft
> _is_ trying to accomplish that.
I am using mutt, but I believe most mail readers thread emails for you.

All I am trying to point out is for a normal user ( ie somebody who is
subscribed to the list), when a thread starts, you read them in date/time order
as them come in, why seems illogical to have to scroll through stuff that you
have just read. The exception is of course when you start a thread in the
middle.


>
> Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
> in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
> you?
I believe (maybe wrongly ) that this mailing list is a non top-posting list, I
try and conform.

if I have offended my appologies


>
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> ×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

--
"The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been -- some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started -- but nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, affected the economy."

- George W. Bush
02/08/2004
on Meet the Press

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:25:14PM -0800, Raquel wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
> Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au> wrote:
>
> > my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
> > the threaded emails. I read them in date/time order, if I follow
> > a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
> > the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
> > I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
> > information I have read in the previous email.
>
> Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.
or taken to the extreme, why not remove all the original post!
>
> --
> Raquel
> ================================================== ==========
> To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men.
> --Abraham Lincoln
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>

--
I'll pretend to trust you if you'll pretend to trust me.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:52:59AM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:13:22PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > > On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> > > >>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> > > >>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> > > >>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
>
> The latter.
>
> > > > Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> > > > others read right->left, all read top->bottom. None read bottom->top.
> > > >> [flame on]
> > > >> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having to go
> > >
> > > Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
> > > to top?
> > so you are advocating top posting ?
>
> IMHO, trying to argue this point based on "rational" or objective
> reasoning, that one way is truly, obviously, and naturally "better"
> than another, is fraught with hazard, since someone *will* argue with
> equal validity (to them at least) that their way is better.
>
> In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette. The practice
> varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the
convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)

> right(1), and have a good day!
>
> Ken
>
> (1) the attribution from the OP is missing in this message, I think.
> --
> Ken Irving, fnkci+debianuser@uaf.edu
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>

--
Thus mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know
what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true.
-- Bertrand Russell

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:00:28PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> > In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette. The practice
> > varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> > the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions

Arghh... that should've been "bottom post", or at least "to not top post"...

> It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the
> convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)

Yup, I screwed that up pretty well. ;-)

--
Ken Irving, fnkci+debianuser@uaf.edu


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On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:17:42PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:00:28PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> > > In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette. The practice
> > > varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> > > the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
>
> Arghh... that should've been "bottom post", or at least "to not top post"...
>
> > It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the
> > convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)
>
> Yup, I screwed that up pretty well. ;-)
>

I find in situations like this its best to laugh a little, i have been spending
a bit of time laughing at myself recently

> --
> Ken Irving, fnkci+debianuser@uaf.edu
>
>
> --
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>
>

--
"It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in nature."

- George W. Bush
02/23/2000
Los Angeles, CA

On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <alex@samad.com.au> wrote:
> I am using mutt, but I believe most mail readers thread emails for you.

Actually, mutt is a pretty decent mail reader!

> All I am trying to point out is for a normal user ( ie somebody who is
> subscribed to the list), when a thread starts, you read them in date/time order
> as them come in, why seems illogical to have to scroll through stuff that you
> have just read. The exception is of course when you start a thread in the
> middle.

No, I read them hours after they have come in, when I get to my mail.
And there are those who will read them for many months or years in
TFA.

> > Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
> > in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
> > you?
> I believe (maybe wrongly ) that this mailing list is a non top-posting list, I
> try and conform.

This is a bottom-posting list, like every other list that has such a
rule. I've never heard of a list that specifically _prefers_ top
posting. If there is such a list, I doubt that it would be of a very
technical nature.

> if I have offended my appologies

No, you haven't offended. But you should have dug through the archive
before dragging this one up from the dead again. It's been discussed
on this list alone over 5000 times (as Michael has pointed out).

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
×�-ב-×’-ד-×”-ו-×–-×—-ט-×™-ך-×›-ל-×�-מ-ן-×*-ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?