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Old 02-01-2010, 07:00 PM
Lev Lvovsky
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple versions of kernels? I'm currently experiencing boot problems with the latest version of the kernel, and must keep version 2.6.26-17 installed. I'd like to install this, and the latest concurrently so that I can experiment with booting to the newer version, as well as jump back to the older version if I need to.

This is also to keep 'apt-get upgrade' from finding anything else pending.

thanks,
-lev

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Old 02-01-2010, 08:14 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

On Monday 01 February 2010 14:00:07 Lev Lvovsky wrote:
> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple versions
> of kernels?

Just install each of their packages separately. Since the kernel team does
support concurrent installs, the upstream version number is part of the
package name:

p linux-image-2.6.26-1-amd64 - Linux 2.6.26 image on AMD64
i A linux-image-2.6.26-2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.26 image on AMD64
p linux-image-2.6.29-bpo.2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.29 image on AMD64
p linux-image-2.6.30-2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.30 image on AMD64
p linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.1-amd64 - Linux 2.6.30 image on AMD64
p linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.30 image on AMD64
i A linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 - Linux 2.6.32 for 64-bit PCs

There's also a version-tracking package "linux-image-amd64". It doesn't have
the upstream version as part of it's name, but only exists to simply pull in
the appropriate real package.

> This is also to keep 'apt-get upgrade' from finding anything else pending.

You could pin the version-tracking package.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:00 PM
Stephen Powell
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:14:36 -0500 (EST), Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> On Monday 01 February 2010 14:00:07 Lev Lvovsky wrote:
>> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple versions
>> of kernels?
>
> Just install each of their packages separately. Since the kernel team does
> support concurrent installs, the upstream version number is part of the
> package name:
>
> p linux-image-2.6.26-1-amd64 - Linux 2.6.26 image on AMD64
> i A linux-image-2.6.26-2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.26 image on AMD64
> p linux-image-2.6.29-bpo.2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.29 image on AMD64
> p linux-image-2.6.30-2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.30 image on AMD64
> p linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.1-amd64 - Linux 2.6.30 image on AMD64
> p linux-image-2.6.30-bpo.2-amd64 - Linux 2.6.30 image on AMD64
> i A linux-image-2.6.32-trunk-amd64 - Linux 2.6.32 for 64-bit PCs
>
> There's also a version-tracking package "linux-image-amd64". It doesn't have
> the upstream version as part of it's name, but only exists to simply pull in
> the appropriate real package.

One must be careful, though. As an example, consider the following
Debian package file names:

linux-image-2.6.26-2-686_2.6.26-19_i386.deb
linux-image-2.6.26-2-686_2.6.26-19lenny2_i386.deb

These package files have different file names, but they are different revisions
of the same package. When installed, they will both have the package name

linux-image-2.6.26-2-686

And the boot images, initial RAM disk images, and library modules will have
the same names in the same directories. The only way I know to install
two different revisions of the same stock kernel package name on the same machine
at the same time is to have two different boot partitions.
If you're building custom kernels you can get around this problem by using
something like the --append-to-version flag of make-kpkg. But when using
stock kernel images this is not an option.


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Old 02-01-2010, 09:11 PM
Stefan Monnier
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple
> versions of kernels?

Hmm... well, the wayu I do it is: I install multiple kernels.
That's all there is to it.
Any reason you're wondering about it? Have you tried something and
bumped into problems?


Stefan


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Old 02-01-2010, 09:39 PM
Lev Lvovsky
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

Hi Boyd,

On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:14 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

> On Monday 01 February 2010 14:00:07 Lev Lvovsky wrote:
>> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple versions
>> of kernels?
>
> Just install each of their packages separately. Since the kernel team does
> support concurrent installs, the upstream version number is part of the
> package name:

I'll admit ignorance on this one - I'm unable to find anything other than just linux-image-2.6.26 and its variants. More specifically, I'm unable to glean any more information than just the major versions of the package as it is to be installed. Upon performing something like 'apt-get install linux-image-2.6.26-2-686', I won't seemingly be able to keep the *currently* installed version of the kernel, and instead, it will simply do an upgrade.

This is totally understandable for most package installs, however with a kernel, keeping the previous version installed is useful (obviously).

I'm not sure if the procedure would involve only downloading via apt-get, and then running dpkg on the .deb file itself.

thanks!
-lev

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Old 02-01-2010, 09:41 PM
Lev Lvovsky
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

Hi Stefan,

On Feb 1, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple
>> versions of kernels?
>
> Hmm... well, the wayu I do it is: I install multiple kernels.
> That's all there is to it.
> Any reason you're wondering about it? Have you tried something and
> bumped into problems?

Are you doing this simply with 'apt-get', or are you using other commands as well?

I've only got the stable and security apt repos in my sources.list file, so I'm note sure if I'm opening myself up to all of the versions of the kernel available.

thanks,
-lev

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Old 02-01-2010, 09:44 PM
Lev Lvovsky
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

Hi Stephen,

On Feb 1, 2010, at 2:00 PM, Stephen Powell wrote:
>
> One must be careful, though. As an example, consider the following
> Debian package file names:
>
> linux-image-2.6.26-2-686_2.6.26-19_i386.deb
> linux-image-2.6.26-2-686_2.6.26-19lenny2_i386.deb
>
> These package files have different file names, but they are different revisions
> of the same package. When installed, they will both have the package name
>
> linux-image-2.6.26-2-686
>
> And the boot images, initial RAM disk images, and library modules will have
> the same names in the same directories. The only way I know to install
> two different revisions of the same stock kernel package name on the same machine
> at the same time is to have two different boot partitions.
> If you're building custom kernels you can get around this problem by using
> something like the --append-to-version flag of make-kpkg. But when using
> stock kernel images this is not an option.

I think this is the problem that I'd be running into.

In Red Hat, you get a list of kernel package names which have the distro release version in the name of the package so that you can have multiple packages of the "same" kernel installed at the same time. I'd be shocked if it were so hard to do on Debian, but I can't for the life of me figure it out...

-lev

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Old 02-01-2010, 10:11 PM
Stefan Monnier
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

>>> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple
>>> versions of kernels?
>> Hmm... well, the wayu I do it is: I install multiple kernels.
>> That's all there is to it.
>> Any reason you're wondering about it? Have you tried something and
>> bumped into problems?

> Are you doing this simply with 'apt-get', or are you using other
> commands as well?

For example, yes.


Stefan


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Old 02-01-2010, 10:13 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

On Monday 01 February 2010 16:39:15 Lev Lvovsky wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:14 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > On Monday 01 February 2010 14:00:07 Lev Lvovsky wrote:
> >> What if any is the generally accepted way of maintaining multiple
> >> versions of kernels?
> >
> > Just install each of their packages separately. Since the kernel team
> > does support concurrent installs, the upstream version number is part of
> > the package name:
>
> I'll admit ignorance on this one - I'm unable to find anything other than
> just linux-image-2.6.26 and its variants.

I have stable(+volatile+security), backports, testing(+security), unstable,
and experimental visible to my APT[1] which is why so many are available to
me.

Each of those usually only has 1-2 upstream kernel versions available at any
one time.

> More specifically, I'm unable
> to glean any more information than just the major versions of the package
> as it is to be installed. Upon performing something like 'apt-get install
> linux-image-2.6.26-2-686', I won't seemingly be able to keep the
> *currently* installed version of the kernel, and instead, it will simply
> do an upgrade.

Yes. That's working as deigned. Some of the files installed by a Debian
kernel package have a path that only contains the kernel ABI (e.g.
"2.6.26-2"). You couldn't safely install two packages (or package versions)
that contained the same files.

For example the package "linux-image-2.6.26-2-amd64" has a version in stable
(2.6.26-21) and stable-security (2.6.26-19lenny2). Installing either one will
replace (not preserve) the other because both put modules under
/lib/modules/2.6.26-2-amd64.

> This is totally understandable for most package installs, however with a
> kernel, keeping the previous version installed is useful (obviously).

It's usually not a big deal when the kernel ABI hasn't changed.

If you have a strong desire to keep every kernel version around, you'll have
to go outside the official packages. From what I understand, the Debian
provided tools to build kernel packages can handle this easily, but I've not
tried it myself.

> I'm not sure if the procedure would involve only downloading via apt-get,
> and then running dpkg on the .deb file itself.

If it where two different packages with Conflicts dependences, dpkg would
complain and you could force it, but it would break the old one. Since it is
the same package (name) but different package versions, dpkg will
automatically upgrade/replace and not preserve the old one.

[1] Don't do this. I've done it for years, but every DD I've mentioned it to
assures me it will at least blow up your system and may actually rip the
fabric of space-time asunder.
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bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 02-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Lev Lvovsky
 
Default concurrent installs of previous + current kernels

On Feb 1, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>
>> This is totally understandable for most package installs, however with a
>> kernel, keeping the previous version installed is useful (obviously).
>
> It's usually not a big deal when the kernel ABI hasn't changed.
>
> If you have a strong desire to keep every kernel version around, you'll have
> to go outside the official packages. From what I understand, the Debian
> provided tools to build kernel packages can handle this easily, but I've not
> tried it myself.
>

Well, currently the only desire I have is to keep the version of the kernel which I currently have installed, as well as whatever debian has available as the "latest". If I understand, this requires that I build each of these kernels?

I'm assuming also, that I could make copies of the binaries dropped into /boot, upgrade, and tell my boot loader to also reference the "old" files. This of course assumes that modules and such are compatible in between the different versions (which is dubious).

There has to be a better way...

thanks for your help!
-lev

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