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Tom H 02-01-2010 07:08 PM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
>> My usual email isn't available until Grub works again.
>> Yes, updating a system via a remote connection is probably not advisable.
>> Attempting to run aptitude to reinstall grub from the rescue mode system
>> gives this message.
>> Error opening terminal: bterm
>> How might this damage be repaired.

> There have been many threads recently about grub-pc boot problems,
> including an advisory not to update grub-pc in apt-listchanges
> during the upgrade itself.

> No doubt the grub fans out there will give me flak for saying this;
> but honestly, if it were me, I'd install lilo and forget about
> grub, at least for a while. *Once you upgrade you can't easily
> go back. *You either wait for the bug to be fixed, or you try a
> tricky and unsupported installation of a back-level package, or
> you install something else. *In this case the solution is to install
> something else.*That's what I did.

Your regular rants against grub are entertaining. :)

The OP said that his error was "BIOS Installed Successfully", which
must mean that his box had a hardware upgrade/change and that could
easily make any boot loader, linux/unix/windows/apple, lose its
bearings.


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Stephen Powell 02-01-2010 07:30 PM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:08:24 -0500 (EST), Tom H wrote:
> Your regular rants against grub are entertaining. :)

I wouldn't call it a rant. I have nothing personal against grub-pc,
per se. I hope they are eventually successful in their project.
I just think it's too unstable for production use at this time.
You of course are entitled to disagree if you like.

> The OP said that his error was "BIOS Installed Successfully", which
> must mean that his box had a hardware upgrade/change and that could
> easily make any boot loader, linux/unix/windows/apple, lose its
> bearings.

Well, if the OP really was performing a BIOS upgrade, then yes,
you're right of course. But I would think that if the OP really
was performing a BIOS upgrade that he would say so. It seems to
be a very significant and relevant detail. (Then again, you'd be
surprised what people try to hide when they ask for help sometimes.)

I must confess I glossed over that and figured he must have meant
"BIOS data check successful" or something like that. I've never
known a debian upgrade to upgrade the BIOS. And from his description,
the messages only stay on the screen for an instant. He may not
have transcribed it right. But theoretically you're right.
If he really was performing a BIOS upgrade and it didn't go right,
then any boot loader may have trouble booting. On the other hand,
he did report that he was able to boot successfully from the
Lenny install CD.


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PETER EASTHOPE 02-02-2010 12:03 AM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
Sorry for the absence of thread connection. This mailer doesn't
provide In-reply-to.

From View message header detail Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com>
Date Monday, February 1, 2010 12:08
> The OP said that his error was "BIOS Installed Successfully", which
> must mean that his box had a hardware upgrade/change and that could
> easily make any boot loader, linux/unix/windows/apple, lose its
> bearings.

From: Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com>
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010 12:30
> Well, if the OP really was performing a BIOS upgrade, then yes,
> you're right of course.*

Sorry everyone. The BIOS report is from the SCSI adapter.
I should have refrained from mention of it in the original message.
Reference http://carnot.yi.org/Console.jpg

From View message header detail Tom H <tomh0665@gmail.com>
Date Monday, February 1, 2010 11:43
> You have to chroot your squeeze install and (1) run grub-install for
> /boot/grub to be populated afresh from /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc and stage
>1 and stage 2 to be created and set up and (2) run update-grub.

The Lenny installer CD comes to this screen.
"Rescue operations

Execute a shell in /dev/hda1"
chroot isn't mentioned but I assumed it's there.

In any case, grub-install and update-grub appeared to run
properly. Yet rebooting led to the same black screen and
repeated reboots! Bad drive?

From View message header detail Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com>
Date Monday, February 1, 2010 12:30
> I just think [grub]'s too unstable for production use at this time.

I'm not a software engineer but would have expected that,
by now, criteria are available to assess release readiness.
For example, the ISO 9000 family, might be relevant.

Thanks for any further ideas, ... Peter E.


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Tixy 02-02-2010 09:10 AM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 17:03 -0800, PETER EASTHOPE wrote:
> Sorry for the absence of thread connection. This mailer doesn't
> provide In-reply-to.
<snip>

I think it does, check the headers :-)

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Tom H 02-02-2010 08:00 PM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
>> Your regular rants against grub are entertaining. :)

> I wouldn't call it a rant. I have nothing personal against grub-pc,
> per se. I hope they are eventually successful in their project.
> I just think it's too unstable for production use at this time.
> You of course are entitled to disagree if you like.

I use grub because it is the default at work and has been for a while
- and I would lilo if it were the default.

I have been using grub2 since September. I have not used Debian's
grub2 but Ubuntu's, Fedora's, and Arch's have been problem free. I
have installed it at friends' and even at a company where I was
moonlighting (at the insistence of the IT manager and with the proviso
that I would replace at the first sign of problems). So a few people
having problems with grub2 in testing or unstable does not really make
an argument against grub2.


>> The OP said that his error was "BIOS Installed Successfully", which
>> must mean that his box had a hardware upgrade/change and that could
>> easily make any boot loader, linux/unix/windows/apple, lose its
>> bearings.

> Well, if the OP really was performing a BIOS upgrade, then yes,
> you're right of course. But I would think that if the OP really
> was performing a BIOS upgrade that he would say so. It seems to
> be a very significant and relevant detail. (Then again, you'd be
> surprised what people try to hide when they ask for help sometimes.)

> I must confess I glossed over that and figured he must have meant
> "BIOS data check successful" or something like that. I've never
> known a debian upgrade to upgrade the BIOS. And from his description,
> the messages only stay on the screen for an instant. He may not
> have transcribed it right. But theoretically you're right.
> If he really was performing a BIOS upgrade and it didn't go right,
> then any boot loader may have trouble booting.

This message can also come from adding or changing ram, a hard disk
controller, a raid controller... I doubt that it is the result of an
apt-get or update-grub command.


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Chris Jones 02-03-2010 12:49 AM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 04:00:07PM EST, Tom H wrote:

[..]

> I have been using grub2 since September. I have not used Debian's
> grub2 but Ubuntu's, Fedora's, and Arch's have been problem free. I
> have installed it at friends' and even at a company where I was
> moonlighting (at the insistence of the IT manager and with the proviso
> that I would replace at the first sign of problems). So a few people
> having problems with grub2 in testing or unstable does not really make
> an argument against grub2.

Same here, although limited to my home machine: same timeline and not a
single glitch, even though I have reconfigured many times.

Granted I'm not trying anything out of the way, just multi-booting half
a dozen GNU/linux systems, but seriously, would grub2 be part of debian
stable if it was as... unstable as has been claimed in this thread..??

CJ


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Mark 02-03-2010 03:54 AM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Chris Jones <cjns1989@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 04:00:07PM EST, Tom H wrote:


>

>Granted I'm not trying anything out of the way, just multi-booting half

>a dozen GNU/linux systems, but seriously, would grub2 be part of debian

>stable if it was as... unstable as has been claimed in this thread..??

>

>CJ



Did grub2 recognize your other OS's automatically?* I've only used grub2 for one installation and it didn't recognize Windows XP on my friend's machine (even though it was valid and the hdd would boot XP), so I Google'd around a bit and followed something similar to this http://erickoo.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/how-to-add-vista-partition-to-grub-2-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/.* Just my experience but grub has never failed to pick up the other OS's automatically.


I don't know if grub2 is unstable, it was just easier for some people (like myself) to edit menu.lst directly.* People might be singing the praises of grub2 in a year, who knows.

Mark

Chris Jones 02-03-2010 05:24 AM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 11:54:42PM EST, Mark wrote:
> >On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Chris Jones <cjns1989@gmail.com> wrote:

[..]

> Did grub2 recognize your other OS's automatically?

grub does not recognize other OS's. It invokes a utility called
os-prober, which is a separate package, and does not IMHO do a very good
job of detecting anything.

In particular if you have an unmaintained menu.lst in a 4-year old
legacy partition that used to be /dev/hda6 and is now /dev/hda11, it
will blindly generate an erroneous stanza in your /boot/grub/grub.cfg
with usually puzzling consequences.

> I've only used grub2 for one installation and it didn't recognize
> Windows XP on my friend's machine (even though it was valid and the
> hdd would boot XP), so I Google'd around a bit and followed something
> similar to this

> http://erickoo.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/how-to-add-vista-partition-to-grub-2-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/.

I am not familiar with Microsoft products.

> Just my experience but grub has never failed to pick up the other OS's
> automatically.

I never used this capability with legacy grub either, because I had a
few options in my kernel boot commands that matched my hardware,
something an os prober would not know about and I didn't want update
grub to overwrite my carefully crafted menu.lst.

I do likewise with grub-pc, specifying what I need in
/etc/grub.d/40_custom. This also ensures that if I move things around
on my hard drive I'm not likely to forget modifying it and updating
grub.cfg.

> I don't know if grub2 is unstable, it was just easier for some people
> (like myself) to edit menu.lst directly. People might be singing the
> praises of grub2 in a year, who knows.

If you maintain your boot environment manually, there is nothing that
prevents you from updating /boot/grub/boot.cfg directly and get rid of
everything in /etc/grub.d/ and never run update-grub again. Just make
sure you don't mix the two approaches.

CJ


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Tom H 02-03-2010 09:21 AM

Postscript: Grub2 in current Squeeze
 
>>>Granted I'm not trying anything out of the way, just multi-booting half
>>>a dozen GNU/linux systems, but seriously, would grub2 be part of debian
>>>stable if it was as... unstable as has been claimed in this thread..??

> Did grub2 recognize your other OS's automatically?* I've only used grub2 for
> one installation and it didn't recognize Windows XP on my friend's machine
> (even though it was valid and the hdd would boot XP), so I Google'd around a
> bit and followed something similar to this
> http://erickoo.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/how-to-add-vista-partition-to-grub-2-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/.
> Just my experience but grub has never failed to pick up the other OS's
> automatically.

June 2009; old thread. In October/November 2009, grub2 still had
issues, especially with /boot, when creating grub.cfg. But it has been
working well since for me (the only problem that I am still having is
that the "Ubuntu version" does not create an initrd line for a
Fedora/RHEL/Centos install; I have been meaning to install grub2 on my
Fedora partition to see what happens there) on various boxes and for
both Linux and Windows installs; on BIOS+MBR HDs.


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