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Old 01-09-2008, 02:35 AM
"s. keeling"
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

Jochen Schulz <ml@well-adjusted.de>:
>
> Sometimes I have the impression that the people who complain the most
> about spam from Debian lists are the ones who don't even know how *bad*
> the spam problem actually is. Even on my own mail server with only four

Recent estimates I've seen suggest up to 80% of the traffic on the net
is spam or malware.

> valid mail addresses plus some aliases I reject more than a thousand
> delivery attempts every day. Receiving 20-50 spam mails a day is surely
> an annoyance. But you are still only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

It amazes me that they refuse to accept the obvious. Linux/Debian/Gnu
provides all the solutions they need, yet they continue to rely on
Lookout! and Gmail, instead of slapping in procmail/mailfilter and
bogofilter/SA. Huh. I've no sympathy, sorry. I'm not seeing a crap
flood from where I'm sitting.


--
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.


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Old 01-09-2008, 03:35 AM
Charlie
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, s. keeling shared this with us all:
>--} It amazes me that they refuse to accept the obvious. *Linux/Debian/Gnu
>--} provides all the solutions they need, yet they continue to rely on
>--} Lookout! and Gmail, instead of slapping in procmail/mailfilter and
>--} bogofilter/SA. *Huh. *I've no sympathy, sorry. *I'm not seeing a crap
>--} flood from where I'm sitting.
>--}

I don't think many of us do who use the applications you mention above.

I have to admit that I knew there was a spam surge because I received 5 to 7
spam mails in my trash and then went to my mailfilter logs just to check it
out.

It was confirmed by the posts to the D-U list. Demonstrating that many people
are still not relying on or trusting Debian to have what they require? Or
maybe those of us that do know, are not letting it be known widely enough?

Be well,
Charlie
--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
************************************************** ********
The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make the law
free. .............................Henry David Thoreau
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
Debian - Just the best way to do magic.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 03:37 AM
Alex Samad
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:35:42AM +0100, s. keeling wrote:
> Jochen Schulz <ml@well-adjusted.de>:
> >
> > Sometimes I have the impression that the people who complain the most
> > about spam from Debian lists are the ones who don't even know how *bad*
> > the spam problem actually is. Even on my own mail server with only four
>
> Recent estimates I've seen suggest up to 80% of the traffic on the net
> is spam or malware.
>
> > valid mail addresses plus some aliases I reject more than a thousand
> > delivery attempts every day. Receiving 20-50 spam mails a day is surely
> > an annoyance. But you are still only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
>
> It amazes me that they refuse to accept the obvious. Linux/Debian/Gnu
> provides all the solutions they need, yet they continue to rely on
> Lookout! and Gmail, instead of slapping in procmail/mailfilter and
> bogofilter/SA. Huh. I've no sympathy, sorry. I'm not seeing a crap
> flood from where I'm sitting.
all relative, I have seen a flood (well 5-8 extra ons pop up), I have sa, grey
listing and my primary mx doesn't accept port 25.

me agree a flood, but by no means anything more than a small annoyance
>
>
> --
> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
> (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
> - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>
 
Old 01-09-2008, 07:16 AM
"Shane D"
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

The reason I don't do that, and trust me, I didn't see that much of it, is:
(A)I am not advanced at the use of Linux (although I could call muyself a geek)
(B)I need something that can talk to me effectively, and guess what
guys: Linux sort of loses that bet for e-mail.

So, I'll be here in gMail getting my spam (which all goes to the spam thing now)

On 1/8/08, Charlie <ariestao@clearmail.com.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, s. keeling shared this with us all:
> >--} It amazes me that they refuse to accept the obvious. Linux/Debian/Gnu
> >--} provides all the solutions they need, yet they continue to rely on
> >--} Lookout! and Gmail, instead of slapping in procmail/mailfilter and
> >--} bogofilter/SA. Huh. I've no sympathy, sorry. I'm not seeing a crap
> >--} flood from where I'm sitting.
> >--}
>
> I don't think many of us do who use the applications you mention above.
>
> I have to admit that I knew there was a spam surge because I received 5 to 7
> spam mails in my trash and then went to my mailfilter logs just to check it
> out.
>
> It was confirmed by the posts to the D-U list. Demonstrating that many
> people
> are still not relying on or trusting Debian to have what they require? Or
> maybe those of us that do know, are not letting it be known widely enough?
>
> Be well,
> Charlie
> --
> Registered Linux User:- 329524
> ************************************************** ********
> The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make the law
> free. .............................Henry David Thoreau
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> Debian - Just the best way to do magic.
>
>


--
-Shane
Blog: http://blind-geek.com/blog/
CoOwner: http://sjtechzone.com
AIM: inhaddict
Skype: chatter8712


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Old 01-09-2008, 07:27 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

On 01/09/08 02:16, Shane D wrote:

The reason I don't do that, and trust me, I didn't see that much of it, is:
(A)I am not advanced at the use of Linux (although I could call muyself a geek)


There's only one way to become advanced at Linux: attempt something
advanced.


Like setting up a "mail server" on your PC using fetchmail, postfix
or exim4, spamassassin or bogofilter, and procmail or maildrop.



(B)I need something that can talk to me effectively, and guess what
guys: Linux sort of loses that bet for e-mail.


You're disabled (I refuse to say "differently abled") and need
speech synthesis?



So, I'll be here in gMail getting my spam (which all goes to the spam thing now)

On 1/8/08, Charlie <ariestao@clearmail.com.au> wrote:

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008, s. keeling shared this with us all:

--} It amazes me that they refuse to accept the obvious. Linux/Debian/Gnu
--} provides all the solutions they need, yet they continue to rely on
--} Lookout! and Gmail, instead of slapping in procmail/mailfilter and
--} bogofilter/SA. Huh. I've no sympathy, sorry. I'm not seeing a crap
--} flood from where I'm sitting.
--}

I don't think many of us do who use the applications you mention above.

I have to admit that I knew there was a spam surge because I received 5 to 7
spam mails in my trash and then went to my mailfilter logs just to check it
out.

It was confirmed by the posts to the D-U list. Demonstrating that many
people
are still not relying on or trusting Debian to have what they require? Or
maybe those of us that do know, are not letting it be known widely enough?


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown


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Old 01-09-2008, 08:19 AM
Martin Marcher
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

Raquel wrote:
> I think that this is what bothers me. I'm on at least a dozen lists
> other than debian-user and debian-isp. However, the 2 Debian lists
> are the ONLY ones from which come SPAM and viruses.

Go figure, debian is supported by volunteers. If you can handle the spam
problem better, go ahead sent a mail to the listmasters and offer them your
help.

martin

PS: but I got at least twice as much "spam" from the "OMG there's actually
spam" threads than I got from the lottery, pr0n and pharmacy guys. I'm
thinking about redefining my view on spam...

PPS: yes I'm aware of the paradoxon that this mail just adds one more spam
message.

--
http://noneisyours.marcher.name
http://feeds.feedburner.com/NoneIsYours

You are not free to read this message,
by doing so, you have violated my licence
and are required to urinate publicly. Thank you.


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Old 01-09-2008, 09:15 AM
Dan H
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 04:35:42 +0100 (CET)
"s. keeling" <keeling@nucleus.com> wrote:

> Jochen Schulz <ml@well-adjusted.de>:

> It amazes me that they refuse to accept the obvious.
> Linux/Debian/Gnu provides all the solutions they need, yet they
> continue to rely on Lookout! and Gmail, instead of slapping in
> procmail/mailfilter and bogofilter/SA. Huh. I've no sympathy,
> sorry. I'm not seeing a crap flood from where I'm sitting.

Spam filtering ain't so easy. OK, I have shell access to the UNIX server from which I get my email via IMAP, so I'm filtering server-side using procmail and ifile. Every now and then I feed in "ham" and "spam" mailboxes by hand via the shell.

But I'll change my job in a few weeks and won't be on that server any more, so I installed the bogofilter plugin for Claws-Mail to try some client-side filtering.

Well, it doesn't filter worth shit. I keep marking stuff as "spam" and "ham", but the filter does plain nothing.

Side note: I just can't get my head around GUI stuff, and my wife is increasingly annoyed by the GNOME desktop I installed for her and wants to go back to Windows. After more than a decade of working on well-honed (for my needs) Linux systems my attempts to install and configure GUI desktops and applications have shown me how far Linux is removed from everyday desktop useability.

What I want to say is: I have a great MUA and a highly praised SPAM filter, but if I have to cruise mailing lists for weeks to figure out how to get it to work, "slapping in" is not the proper term to describe the installation process.

--D.


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Old 01-09-2008, 12:25 PM
Michelle Konzack
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

Hello *,

Am 2008-01-08 14:34:55, schrieb Jochen Schulz:
> Hans Vogelsberger:
> >
> > [...] Well, in the meantime it seems that every spam is let through
> > by the debian-user filters.
>
> No: <http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/04/msg00809.html>.
>
> The amount of spam that has passed the listserver's filter mechanisms in
> the last few days might be large, but it is still only a tiny fraction
> of what's actually coming in at lists.debian.org.
>
> Sometimes I have the impression that the people who complain the most
> about spam from Debian lists are the ones who don't even know how *bad*
> the spam problem actually is. Even on my own mail server with only four
> valid mail addresses plus some aliases I reject more than a thousand
> delivery attempts every day. Receiving 20-50 spam mails a day is surely
> an annoyance. But you are still only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

FullACK! -- I am using 76 E-Mail-Adresses at my ISP and since 2007-12-17
I am hit daily by over 300.000 messages.

Now the spam is going back to arround 48.000 per day but I am arround 2
weeks behinde with spamfiltering since my @home mailserver was gone and
now I am using a reserve mainboard/cpu with only 384 MB of memory which
can not handel more then 70.000 messages a day...

AFTER filtering I get only 30-80 spams through my filters...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886
50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi
0033/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com)
 
Old 01-09-2008, 01:51 PM
Hans Vogelsberger
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

I am afraid I am responsible for this thread. Therefore just some words.


Chris Howie is reported to have said about spam:

... people could stop talking about it and get back to their lives, since it
was fixed some hours ago.



Wayne Topa wrote:
... This seems to come up at least once a year. People
complaining about too much spam on the list and what the 'list admins'
should do about it. It very sad.


It is not sad, it is absolutely necessary. Of course the list
responsibles do their best. It is not their fault that every now and
then their dams break. But words much harsher than they deserve are
unavoidable to make them work as hard and as fast as possible to rebuild
those dams and thus to save the usability of this list. As far as I know
since testing came up in potato days, they can stand such words.


There were dangerous phishing mails, too. Who knows when the one or the
other state attorney gets the idea to make listmasters responsible as
accomplices! That would be ridiculous, of course, but here in Europe
there exists that kind of officials, and remembering one Tartuffe in
pre-bushocratic cigar 'smoking' times, I am afraid, in the US even more so.



I searched for a cure and, at the time, found it in the debian mailfilter

> package. ... Mailfilter, for those that don't know, deletes the spam at

the ISP, so I don't have to download it.


So do I, also since years. And it was my mailfilter log which gave me
reason to begin this thread. But there was also some spam and phishing
coming through, because mailfilter only checks headers and does not
delete postings coming in while Icedove (Debian Thunderbird) is running.



A new mailfilter type program came out 2-3 years ago. It improves on
the mailfilter (headers only) method by including a mail body check.
The program is called murx <http://murx.sourceforge.net>


Well, I remember having read this name, but I never tried it. In my
language 'Murks' means something like 'made with Pfusch' and Pfusch,
pronounced after the initial consonants like 'Bush', means something
like 'total lack of professionality'. I think I shall try this murx
program soon, no longer being afraid of a lame duck. You see, tips like
this one are the second reason why it is not at all sad that people
complain against spam.


> In fact, my logs show more messages compiling about spam, then spam
> messages. About a 5-6 to 1 ratio.

That is correct, especially after the listmasters have stopped the flood
of spam.


Anyhow, thanks and many thanks again to the listmasters to save the list
that fast. And, please, excuse my harsh postings - though, I am sure I
shall do it again whenn I feel it is necessary. So, I beg for
forgiveness in advance, too.


Thank you, too, for reading thus far
Hans Vogelsberger

--
To avoid spam this address accepts only mails 'To:' subscribed lists.
Zur Vermeidung von Spam akzeptiert diese Adresse nur Mails 'An:'
abonnierte Listen.
Hans Vogelsberger, A-6130


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Old 01-09-2008, 09:19 PM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default What is going on in debian-user?

* Dan H <dunno@stoptrick.com> [2008 Jan 09 08:29 -0600]:

> Side note: I just can't get my head around GUI stuff, and my wife is
> increasingly annoyed by the GNOME desktop I installed for her and wants
> to go back to Windows. After more than a decade of working on
> well-honed (for my needs) Linux systems my attempts to install and
> configure GUI desktops and applications have shown me how far Linux is
> removed from everyday desktop useability.

I'm not trolling, but am posing a serious question, Have you had her
try KDE? She may find it more to her liking.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."


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