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vishnu vardhan 01-27-2010 03:12 AM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
OS : Lenny 5.0.3

I have installed openoffice from backports and transmission-gtk from unstable.

I have read a couple of articles about installing packages from stable, unstable, etc.. and pinning of packages.


My sources.list entries are as follows :
deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free

#deb http://www.backports.org/debian lenny-backports main contrib non-free
#deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian unstable main non-free contrib


After I have installed transmission-gtk, I commented out the line of unstable.
I did not created /etc/spt/preference file. I am still averse to pinning of packages.

Do I need to create a prefernce file ? and is it compulsory ?

Are there any more lines need to be added to sources.list file ?
If I did not create the preference file, and if I update the system [ apt-get update, apt-get upgrade ] will any issues crop up ?
If I pin my packages, what word should I use for backports. e.g. Pin: release a=testing.


Please guide me.

thank u,
vishnuvardhan.

Freeman 01-27-2010 06:59 AM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 09:42:42AM +0530, vishnu vardhan wrote:
> OS : Lenny 5.0.3
>
> I have installed openoffice from backports and transmission-gtk from
> unstable.
>
> I have read a couple of articles about installing packages from stable,
> unstable, etc.. and pinning of packages.
>
> My sources.list entries are as follows :
> deb [1]http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free
> deb [2]http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
> #deb [3]http://www.backports.org/debian lenny-backports main contrib
> non-free
> #deb [4]http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian unstable main non-free contrib
>
> After I have installed transmission-gtk, I commented out the line of
> unstable.
> I did not created /etc/spt/preference file. I am still averse to pinning
> of packages.
>
> Do I need to create a prefernce file ? and is it compulsory ?
> Are there any more lines need to be added to sources.list file ?
> If I did not create the preference file, and if I update the system [
> apt-get update, apt-get upgrade ] will any issues crop up ?
> If I pin my packages, what word should I use for backports. e.g. Pin:
> release a=testing.
>
> Please guide me.
>

I can not offer you guidance. I can tell you that did not use a preferences
file when I ran stable, etch, with backports installed.

I did use aptitude for my package manager. It is supposed to have better
dependency handling. I think I also read somewhere about aptitude
respecting user selections.

I made sure to set it not to make changes automatically. But it never asked
to uninstall a backports package. (In the ncurses TUI under preferences.)

There were quite a few backports packages on my system. If memory serves
well, Open Office packages were among them.

You can always wait to make a preferences file if aptitude asks to remove a
backport package.

If you do use pinning, I recommend only pinning the backport packages and
all their dependencies to the backports archive. I recommend against
attempting to design an overarching pinning policy for all your package
management. The latter seems popular with some but unwise.

--
Kind Regards,
Freeman


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Roman Khomasuridze 01-27-2010 07:02 AM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 8:12 AM, vishnu vardhan <vishnuvardhan.linux@gmail.com> wrote:

OS : Lenny 5.0.3

I have installed openoffice from backports and transmission-gtk from unstable.

I have read a couple of articles about installing packages from stable, unstable, etc.. and pinning of packages.



My sources.list entries are as follows :
deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free


#deb http://www.backports.org/debian lenny-backports main contrib non-free
#deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian unstable main non-free contrib



After I have installed transmission-gtk, I commented out the line of unstable.
I did not created /etc/spt/preference file. I am still averse to pinning of packages.

Do I need to create a prefernce file ? and is it compulsory ?


Are there any more lines need to be added to sources.list file ?
If I did not create the preference file, and if I update the system [ apt-get update, apt-get upgrade ] will any issues crop up ?
If I pin my packages, what word should I use for backports. e.g. Pin: release a=testing.



Please guide me.

thank u,
vishnuvardhan.

you need to create preference file and pin packages there. also you need to add to sources.list all the repositories you want. fo e.g. you have stable, testing and unstable repos in my sources.list, and my preference file looks like this:


Pin: release a=stable
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 650

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 600
*
this means that "apt-get install transmission-gtk" willl install that package from stable repo, but if you want* some package from testing you should "apt-get install transmission-gtk/testing" or "apt-get install -t testing trasmission-gtk"


hope i was clear :d, sorry fo my english

Freeman 01-27-2010 07:20 AM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:59:26PM -0800, evenso wrote:

I should clarify:

>
> I made sure to set it not to make changes automatically. But it never asked
> to uninstall a backports package. (In the ncurses TUI under preferences.)
>
Meaning the ncurses Text User Interface of aptitude.

>
> If you do use pinning, I recommend only pinning the backport packages and
> all their dependencies to the backports archive.
>

Meaning:

Pin: release a=lenny-backports

As in the instructions for pinning on the backports page.

Link: http://www.backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faq


BTW, I think there is something more important.

If you are going to maintain a mixed-stable system with those
testing/unstable packages you mention (not a novice endeavor) and upgrade
them or install more, you should hold your release to stable with an
apt.conf file.

/etc/apt/apt.conf

APT::Default-Release "stable";

--
Kind Regards,
Freeman


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Osamu Aoki 01-27-2010 12:13 PM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
Hi,

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 09:42:42AM +0530, vishnu vardhan wrote:
> OS : Lenny 5.0.3
>
> I have installed openoffice from backports
Good move.

> and transmission-gtk from > unstable.

??? I think this is questionable move which is risky for package with
library dependence.

> Do I need to create a prefernce file ?...

These are tricks to fool APT. These do not solve the package version
dependency issue. If it happen to be running, you are just lucky.

If you can locally backport package, you should try it to be safe. If
not, it is best not to do this kind of mixed system to avoid problem.

Osamu


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"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." 01-27-2010 01:45 PM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
In <20100127131300.GE6468@osamu.debian.net>, Osamu Aoki wrote:
>> Do I need to create a prefernce file ?...
>
>These are tricks to fool APT.

Not "fool". Apt, by default, treats all remote repositories in one of two
manners "get every package from there" (priority 500) or "get only the
packages I request from there" (priority 1 -- backports and experimental).

Using pinning, you can communicate to apt your actual preferences of
repositories. In my case, try to get all packages from
stable+security+volatile, but if you need them to satisfy dependencies or I
request a specific version you can pull from backports,
testing+volatile+security, unstable, and experimental in that order.

>These do not solve the package version
>dependency issue. If it happen to be running, you are just lucky.

Apt/aptitude will try as much as possible to make sure the various
dependencies of all installed packages are satisfied. If they fail, you could
be in trouble. If they succeed but something still breaks, you are unlucky
(please file a bug).

Preferences don't solve package dependency issues in isolation, but aptitude
can use the priorities when ranking it's solutions and deciding which packages
to upgrade. Once you start pulling in packages from
testing/unstable/experimental, you will have to execute a full-upgrade more
often, and provide a bit a manual guidance to aptitude, but that's to be
expected.

>If you can locally backport package, you should try it to be safe.

I don't like doing this because I don't like having to provide my own security
support.

>If
>not, it is best not to do this kind of mixed system to avoid problem.

Having run a mixed desktop and 2 mixed servers since before Lenny was
released, I disagree with this statement. It allows the packages whose
development I'm not currently following is remain dependable (pulled from
stable or at least testing) while letting me pull packages with new, shiny
features that I must try from unstable or experimental.

I really do find it to be a best-of-both-worlds situation. My configuration
is documented at http://iguanasuicide.net/node/4.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

vishnu vardhan 01-27-2010 03:36 PM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
After installing Openoffice, I commented out lines of backports.
When I have installed transmission, I did not commented out lines of backports.
Normally, I install the packages with the following command :
aptitude install "package".


Freeman | there is no apt.conf file at /etc/apt/.
However the following files are located at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/* :
00trustcdrom********** 15update-stamp******** 70debconf
01autoremove********** 20archive************* 99update-notifier

10periodic************ 50unattended-upgrades*

I tried to install amarok, but it is showing various conflicts.
I have decided not to install unstable or any other packages for that matter.
I am satisfied with the Debian as it is.


Thank u for all of your replies.
vishnuvardhan.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss@iguanasuicide.net> wrote:

In <20100127131300.GE6468@osamu.debian.net>, Osamu Aoki wrote:


>> Do I need to create a prefernce file ?...

>

>These are tricks to fool APT.



Not "fool". *Apt, by default, treats all remote repositories in one of two

manners "get every package from there" (priority 500) or "get only the

packages I request from there" (priority 1 -- backports and experimental).



Using pinning, you can communicate to apt your actual preferences of

repositories. *In my case, try to get all packages from

stable+security+volatile, but if you need them to satisfy dependencies or I

request a specific version you can pull from backports,

testing+volatile+security, unstable, and experimental in that order.



>These do not solve the package version

>dependency issue. *If it happen to be running, you are just lucky.



Apt/aptitude will try as much as possible to make sure the various

dependencies of all installed packages are satisfied. *If they fail, you could

be in trouble. *If they succeed but something still breaks, you are unlucky

(please file a bug).



Preferences don't solve package dependency issues in isolation, but aptitude

can use the priorities when ranking it's solutions and deciding which packages

to upgrade. *Once you start pulling in packages from

testing/unstable/experimental, you will have to execute a full-upgrade more

often, and provide a bit a manual guidance to aptitude, but that's to be

expected.



>If you can locally backport package, you should try it to be safe.



I don't like doing this because I don't like having to provide my own security

support.



>If

>not, it is best not to do this kind of mixed system to avoid problem.



Having run a mixed desktop and 2 mixed servers since before Lenny was

released, I disagree with this statement. *It allows the packages whose

development I'm not currently following is remain dependable (pulled from

stable or at least testing) while letting me pull packages with new, shiny

features that I must try from unstable or experimental.



I really do find it to be a best-of-both-worlds situation. *My configuration

is documented at http://iguanasuicide.net/node/4.

--

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. * * * * * * * * * ,= ,-_-. =.

bss@iguanasuicide.net * * * * * * * * * ((_/)o o(\_))

ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy * * * * `-'(. .)`-'

http://iguanasuicide.net/ * * * * * * * * * *\_/

Freeman 01-27-2010 05:46 PM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:06:39PM +0530, vishnu vardhan wrote:
> Normally, I install the packages with the following command :
> aptitude install "package".

Have you trie going into ncurses with the command "aptitude" ? It will give
you some easier ability to resolve dependency issues and set preferences.

When you get the conflict and resolution alert in the ncurses interface, you
can type 'e' to examine and '.' for more solutions. Just be sure your
preferences are set to not install broken package dependencies!

In the packages descriptions, when there is a conflict warning, you can
drill down through red highlighted dependencies to give yourself an
overview. You can reset to before the dependency conflict with the "undo"
menu item and "Actions > Forget new packages" menu item.

>
> Freeman | there is no apt.conf file at /etc/apt/.
> However the following files are located at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/* :
> 00trustcdrom********** 15update-stamp******** 70debconf
> 01autoremove********** 20archive************* 99update-notifier
> 10periodic************ 50unattended-upgrades*
>

You have to put it there. As root:

echo 'APT::Default-Release "stable";' > apt.conf

Then you can leave higher level repositories open in your sources list.

> I tried to install amarok, but it is showing various conflicts.
> I have decided not to install unstable or any other packages for that
> matter.
> I am satisfied with the Debian as it is.

See if you get more amarok option by includinng the multimedia repository
below.

My sources.list below sig.

--
Kind Regards,
Freeman

## Disk
### Onboard Repository
deb file:/srv/debs/ general proprietary tarballs

########################
##### BASE SOURCES #####
########################

## Security
deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free

## Stable OSU
deb ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
# deb-src ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free

## Stable Debian
# deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free

## Squeeze OSU
deb ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
# deb-src ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

## Squeeze Debian
# deb ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
# deb-src ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

## Unstable OSU
deb ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
# deb-src ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ sid main contrib non-free

## Unstable Debian
# deb ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
# deb-src ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free

## Experimental OSU
# deb ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free
# deb-src ftp://debian.oregonstate.edu/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free

########################
## ADDITIONAL SOURCES ##
########################

## Backports
### Improvements for lenny
# deb http://www.backports.org/debian/ lenny-backports main contrib non-free

## Unofficial
### Various Unstable
#deb http://unofficial.debian-maintainers.org/ sid/snapshots main contrib non-free restricted
# deb-src http://unofficial.debian-maintainers.org/ sid/snapshots main contrib non-free restricted

## Proposed Updates 4.0 release
### Preliminary Packages
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ proposed-updates main contrib non-free

## Volatile
### Rapidly Changing Updates
# deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/ lenny/volatile main contrib non-free
### Rapidly Changing Risky
# deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/ lenny/volatile-sloppy main contrib non-free

## Proposed Updates Volatile--danger Will Robinson!
### Extremely Risky
# deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/ lenny-proposed-updates/volatile main contrib non-free

########################
### EXTERNAL SOURCES ###
########################

## Debian Eee PC
### http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/Repository
# deb http://eeepc.debian.net/debian lenny main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://eeepc.debian.net/debian lenny main contrib non-free
# deb http://eeepc.debian.net/debian sid main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://eeepc.debian.net/debian sid main contrib non-free

### Multimedia
#######################

## Multimedia marillat
### Media Advanced
# deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ lenny main
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ squeeze main
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ sid main

### Browsers
######################

## Opera
# deb http://deb.opera.com/opera/ etch non-free

## Google
### The Dark Side
#deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable main non-free
#deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ testing main non-free

### Proprietary
######################

## wine
### WineHQ- Debian 4.0 "Etch"
# deb http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/apt/ etch main
### WineHQ- Debian 4.0 "Etch"
# deb-src http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/apt/ etch main

## Skype
deb http://download.skype.com/linux/repos/debian/ stable non-free

## Freemind
# deb http://eric.lavar.de/comp/linux/debian/ unstable/
# deb-src http://eric.lavar.de/comp/linux/debian/ unstable/



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Freeman 01-27-2010 06:46 PM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:46:05AM -0800, evenso wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:06:39PM +0530, vishnu vardhan wrote:
> > Normally, I install the packages with the following command :
> > aptitude install "package".
>
> Have you trie going into ncurses with the command "aptitude" ? It will give
> you some easier ability to resolve dependency issues and set preferences.
>
> When you get the conflict and resolution alert in the ncurses interface, you
> can type 'e' to examine and '.' for more solutions. Just be sure your
> preferences are set to not install broken package dependencies!
>
> In the packages descriptions, when there is a conflict warning, you can
> drill down through red highlighted dependencies to give yourself an
> overview. You can reset to before the dependency conflict with the "undo"
> menu item and "Actions > Forget new packages" menu item.
>
> >
> > Freeman | there is no apt.conf file at /etc/apt/.
> > However the following files are located at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/* :
> > 00trustcdrom********** 15update-stamp******** 70debconf
> > 01autoremove********** 20archive************* 99update-notifier
> > 10periodic************ 50unattended-upgrades*
> >
>
> You have to put it there. As root:
>
> echo 'APT::Default-Release "stable";' > apt.conf
>
> Then you can leave higher level repositories open in your sources list.
>

P.S. You could look around for a numbering protocol for a Default-Release
file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d . (I believe the apt.conf file will simply take
precedence over duplications.) Or maybe somebody can make a recommendations.

I don't have it because I never modernize until I have no choice. :-)

--
Kind Regards,
Freeman


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Osamu Aoki 01-29-2010 01:11 PM

Installation of packages from backports, unstable and stable.
 
Hi Boyd,

Thanks for enthusiastic promotion of Debian unstable.

Please remember there are people behind packages and APT system only
uses information provided by them. Overly confident on Debian system
beyond its providers is not good for you.

You know we run the stable system on most Debian servers. Have you
thought about the reason behind why we have backports.org and we AS
Debian use backports.org packages for partial upgrades of our stable
servers? If things always work just using multiple archives with
preferences and aptitude, .... we do not need backports.org packages
for Debian servers. We can just have unstable.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 08:45:13AM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In <20100127131300.GE6468@osamu.debian.net>, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> >> Do I need to create a preference file ?...
> >
> >These are tricks to fool APT.
>
> Not "fool".

You are free to disagree. But we as Debian packagers assume users to
use DEFAULT configuration and try to guarantee proper function under such
condition. Debian provides you with lots of tools to override package
maintainer judgement and expectation. This does not guarantee your
action is the right one.

> Apt, by default, treats all remote repositories in one of two
> manners "get every package from there" (priority 500) or "get only the
> packages I request from there" (priority 1 -- backports and experimental).

So what? We know it and we do not expect people to play with preferences
unless they know exactly the side effects of preferences

> Using pinning, you can communicate to apt your actual preferences of
> repositories. In my case, try to get all packages from
> stable+security+volatile, but if you need them to satisfy dependencies or I
> request a specific version you can pull from backports,
> testing+volatile+security, unstable, and experimental in that order.

But you as user are moving into situation where we as Debian developers
do not guarantee package to function in the most robust way. To me, you
are fooling APT system to make it do what DD might not have been
anticipated. So please do not advocate such action without giving
negative side. I know it works under some situation and I also know it
does not work under other situation. I use it when I need it too.

> >These do not solve the package version
> >dependency issue. If it happen to be running, you are just lucky.
>
> Apt/aptitude will try as much as possible to make sure the various
> dependencies of all installed packages are satisfied. If they fail, you could
> be in trouble. If they succeed but something still breaks, you are unlucky
> (please file a bug).

Pretty please, DO NOT DO THIS. We as DD do not appreciate this. Please
run packages under pure unstable system if possible to report bugs.
(If not, please make sure to analize situation carefully.)

(Please do not feel bad. You are not alone making this
misunderstanding. I made the same mistake and I was corrected by other
DD. This is the reason behind the change of tone in "Debian Reference"
http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#quick-reference )

Please note that I install some unstable packages which I know they
should work, like most bash programs, to my stable system. E.g.
pbuilder. But I also know even some bash programs from unstable did not
work in stable in previous releases. ( "-nt" was a new feature). That
is why my Co-maintainer updated it to accommodate such usage. I know it
by my first experience.

> Preferences don't solve package dependency issues in isolation, but aptitude
> can use the priorities when ranking it's solutions and deciding which packages
> to upgrade. Once you start pulling in packages from
> testing/unstable/experimental, you will have to execute a full-upgrade more
> often, and provide a bit a manual guidance to aptitude, but that's to be
> expected.
>
> >If you can locally backport package, you should try it to be safe.
>
> I don't like doing this because I don't like having to provide my own security
> support.

It is your prerogative to feel this way.

> >If not, it is best not to do this kind of mixed system to avoid
> >problem.
>
> Having run a mixed desktop and 2 mixed servers since before Lenny was
> released, I disagree with this statement. It allows the packages whose
> development I'm not currently following is remain dependable (pulled from
> stable or at least testing) while letting me pull packages with new, shiny
> features that I must try from unstable or experimental.

Lucky you. This is just your case.

> I really do find it to be a best-of-both-worlds situation. My configuration
> is documented at http://iguanasuicide.net/node/4.

Recently, many packages are built with strict version dependencies.
So there may be fewer problematic cases arising with such set up since
they tends to pull in required version packages.

But giving blanket guarantee without fair warning is irresponsible.

Osamu


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