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Old 01-22-2010, 09:28 PM
Bhasker C V
 
Default File system for linux and windows

Hi,

This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise, I
think this would be a good reference for anybody.


I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear
information on what to do.

The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows what
is the best file system to use[plus adding security complexity].


Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work
unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when
using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume
is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk by any of the written

ext3 drivers in windows.

Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes
corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not
have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using linux
or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain).


Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well supported
by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with FAT32, I guess
(correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for case-sensitive file
names in the FAT32 file system.


So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
windows and also linux ?


Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
(meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the

FS is not in a partition) ?


Bhasker C V
Registered linux user #306349



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Old 01-23-2010, 07:13 AM
Bhasker C V
 
Default File system for linux and windows

Hi,

This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise,
I think this would be a good reference for

anybody.

I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear
information on what to do.

The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows
what is the best file system to use[plus adding

security complexity].

Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work
unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when
using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume
is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk

by any of the written
ext3 drivers in windows.

Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
when there are large number of files, undoubtably,
ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates
data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes
corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used
ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain).


Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well
supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem
with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for
case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system.


So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
windows and also linux ?


Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
(meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in

windows even if the
FS is not in a partition) ?


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Old 01-23-2010, 11:26 AM
Nick Douma
 
Default File system for linux and windows

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23-1-2010 9:13, Bhasker C V wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise,
> I think this would be a good reference for
> anybody.
>
> I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear
> information on what to do.
>
> The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows
> what is the best file system to use[plus adding
> security complexity].

I have two 1TB drives, both with two partitions on them. One drive has
two EXT3 partitions, the other two NTFS.

>
> Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work
> unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when
> using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume
> is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk
> by any of the written
> ext3 drivers in windows.

I would expect that the problem does not occur when the encrypted
partition is NTFS.

>
> Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
> when there are large number of files, undoubtably,
> ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates
> data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes
> corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used
> ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain).

I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g.
I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS
partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download
partitions (usenet, torrents, etc).

>
> Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well
> supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem
> with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for
> case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system.

Don't expect NTFS to be case-sensitive either when using it with
Windows. I had two identically named folders, only with a single letter
in a different case. Windows could not distinguish between the two folders.

I would not use FAT32 if you didn't have to. It fragments like mad, and
has no built in journaling to protect from data loss in case of a power
outage.

>
> So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
> windows and also linux ?

Really depends on what OS you are using the most. Using EXT3 means you
lose the security information when using it with Windows. The same with
NTFS and Linux. Both just ignore the information. If this is not an
issue, then I would suggest using NTFS, because Windows supports it
natively, and ntfs-3g is still being developed, unlike the EXT3 drivers
for Windows.

>
> Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
> (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in
> windows even if the
> FS is not in a partition) ?
>

I have no real experience with this, but I have a file-based Truecrypt
partition in NTFS, and use them with both Linux and Windows.

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Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkta6usACgkQkPq5zKsAFiiTTgCfW59xkr9qes GrjFUoGAJDwC/3
00sAn1Mz2pqWEF0PAsYiYriDYxRODi99
=YDym
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:30 PM
Bhasker C V
 
Default File system for linux and windows

Nick Douma wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23-1-2010 9:13, Bhasker C V wrote:


Hi,

This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise,
I think this would be a good reference for
anybody.

I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear
information on what to do.

The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows
what is the best file system to use[plus adding
security complexity].



I have two 1TB drives, both with two partitions on them. One drive has
two EXT3 partitions, the other two NTFS.



Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work
unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when
using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume
is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk
by any of the written
ext3 drivers in windows.



I would expect that the problem does not occur when the encrypted
partition is NTFS.



Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
when there are large number of files, undoubtably,
ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates
data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes
corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used
ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain).



I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g.
I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS
partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download
partitions (usenet, torrents, etc).

I think this is the near best solution. This is the 3rd time I am trying
to capture all data (around 10,000 files)
from my linux box into the luks ntfs partition. Everything works fine.
There is no file corruption. But it all
starts to cruble the moment you use chkdsk. Chkdsk starts deleting lots
of files and says they are corrupt
and then on the next run it salvages files saying they are orphaned. On
total, I lose a lot of files.


Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well
supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem
with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for
case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system.



Don't expect NTFS to be case-sensitive either when using it with
Windows. I had two identically named folders, only with a single letter
in a different case. Windows could not distinguish between the two folders.

I would not use FAT32 if you didn't have to. It fragments like mad, and
has no built in journaling to protect from data loss in case of a power
outage.



So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
windows and also linux ?



Really depends on what OS you are using the most. Using EXT3 means you
lose the security information when using it with Windows. The same with
NTFS and Linux. Both just ignore the information. If this is not an
issue, then I would suggest using NTFS, because Windows supports it
natively, and ntfs-3g is still being developed, unlike the EXT3 drivers
for Windows.



Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
(meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in
windows even if the
FS is not in a partition) ?




I have no real experience with this, but I have a file-based Truecrypt
partition in NTFS, and use them with both Linux and Windows.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkta6usACgkQkPq5zKsAFiiTTgCfW59xkr9qes GrjFUoGAJDwC/3
00sAn1Mz2pqWEF0PAsYiYriDYxRODi99
=YDym
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






--
Bhasker C V
Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org)
Fedora Ambassador : Bhaslinux


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Old 01-23-2010, 02:15 PM
Rob Owens
 
Default File system for linux and windows

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:28:26PM +0000, Bhasker C V wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise,
> I think this would be a good reference for anybody.
>
> I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear
> information on what to do.
>
> The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows
> what is the best file system to use[plus adding security complexity].
>
> Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work
> unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when
> using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume
> is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk by any of the written
> ext3 drivers in windows.
>
> Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
> when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes
> corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not
> have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using
> linux or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in
> vain).
>
> Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well
> supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with FAT32, I
> guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for case-sensitive
> file names in the FAT32 file system.
>
> So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
> windows and also linux ?
>
> Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
> (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the
> FS is not in a partition) ?
>
I don't know of any others. But if you have a network you can certainly
have a network drive that is writable by both Linux and Windows. (using
Samba).

But I expect you're probably in a dual-boot situation where you're
trying to share files on a single computer between the 2 OS's. For that
I've always used FAT32, and it seems to work well. I don't like using
it, especially after MS sued Tom Tom over their use of FAT32. Not that
I'm worried about getting sued, but I'd like to shun MS technology in
protest.

-Rob

-Rob


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Old 01-23-2010, 04:38 PM
Camaleón
 
Default File system for linux and windows

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +0000, Bhasker C V wrote:

(...)

> So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
> windows and also linux ?
>
> Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
> (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the
> FS is not in a partition) ?

I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 01-23-2010, 07:27 PM
Bhasker C V
 
Default File system for linux and windows

Camaleón wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +0000, Bhasker C V wrote:

(...)



So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
windows and also linux ?

Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
(meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the
FS is not in a partition) ?



I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-?

Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is
not working with windows.
I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux.
For data in windows, ntfs partitions
can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The
external disk can _only_ be used in

linux and not in windows.

Greetings,





--
Bhasker C V
Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org)
Fedora Ambassador : Bhaslinux


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Old 01-23-2010, 08:22 PM
Alex Samad
 
Default File system for linux and windows

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 01:30:59PM +0000, Bhasker C V wrote:
> Nick Douma wrote:

[snip]

> >>Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
> >>when there are large number of files, undoubtably,
> >>ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates
> >>data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes
> >>corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used
> >>ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain).
> >
> >I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g.
> >I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS
> >partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download
> >partitions (usenet, torrents, etc).
> I think this is the near best solution. This is the 3rd time I am
> trying to capture all data (around 10,000 files)
> from my linux box into the luks ntfs partition. Everything works
> fine. There is no file corruption. But it all
> starts to cruble the moment you use chkdsk. Chkdsk starts deleting
> lots of files and says they are corrupt
> and then on the next run it salvages files saying they are orphaned.

I have used ntfs (the ntfs-3g package, not the kernel ntfs drivers -
there is a difference), and I have never had any problems - that weren't
media related - faulty sector....

are you sure your use the fuse package, and doing a proper umount ?

[snip]

> On total, I lose a lot of files.
 
Old 01-23-2010, 08:54 PM
Bhasker C V
 
Default File system for linux and windows

Alex Samad wrote:

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 01:30:59PM +0000, Bhasker C V wrote:


Nick Douma wrote:



[snip]



Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that
when there are large number of files, undoubtably,
ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates
data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes
corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used
ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain).


I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g.
I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS
partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download
partitions (usenet, torrents, etc).


I think this is the near best solution. This is the 3rd time I am
trying to capture all data (around 10,000 files)
from my linux box into the luks ntfs partition. Everything works
fine. There is no file corruption. But it all
starts to cruble the moment you use chkdsk. Chkdsk starts deleting
lots of files and says they are corrupt
and then on the next run it salvages files saying they are orphaned.



I have used ntfs (the ntfs-3g package, not the kernel ntfs drivers -
there is a difference), and I have never had any problems - that weren't
media related - faulty sector....

are you sure your use the fuse package, and doing a proper umount ?

I think I need to run a complete block scan on the disk to check for bad
sectors. This could also be a

problem with the disk.

[snip]



On total, I lose a lot of files.




--
Bhasker C V
Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org)
Fedora Ambassador : Bhaslinux


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Old 01-23-2010, 09:19 PM
Joe
 
Default File system for linux and windows

Bhasker C V wrote:

Camaleón wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +0000, Bhasker C V wrote:

(...)



So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both
windows and also linux ?

Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also
(meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the
FS is not in a partition) ?



I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-?

Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is
not working with windows.
I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux.
For data in windows, ntfs partitions
can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The
external disk can _only_ be used in

linux and not in windows.


There are many UDF versions, and if Windows is not natively able to read
one, it is possible that Adaptec's InCD or Roxio's DirectCD may be able
to. They supported UDF on Windows long before Microsoft did. I was
writing UDF to CD-Rs on Windows 98 with DirectCD.


--
Joe


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