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Old 01-13-2010, 01:58 PM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

Good day.


As I have heard that vserver package does not work well in Debian, I would like to hear Your opinion (if any) on what is working more stable (well for use in production systems):

1. vserver
2. openvz
3. something else


Thanks for Your time.

PS Please, reply to the list.


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Old 01-13-2010, 02:28 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

In <4b4ddfeb.0437560a.1e72.ffffff44@mx.google.com>, Sthu Deus wrote:
>I would
> like to hear Your opinion (if any) on what is working more stable (well for
> use in production systems):
>
>3. something else

Xen.
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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 01-13-2010, 04:27 PM
Curt Howland
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 13 January 2010, Sthu Deus <sthu.deus@gmail.com> was
heard to say:
> As I have heard that vserver package does not work well in Debian,
> I would like to hear Your opinion (if any) on what is working more
> stable (well for use in production systems):
>
> 1. vserver
> 2. openvz
> 3. something else

I like VirtualBox. The OSE is in the Debian repositories, or see the
Debian section of http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads

Curt-

- --
The Magistrate, enrobed in taxes, condemns the thief in stolen rags.

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Old 01-13-2010, 08:27 PM
Robert David
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

Hi

I use openvz on my servers (lenny) without problems. I have never used
vserver.

I think that openvz is stable enough for production use in lenny. And what I
have read vserver does not have the nice features and wrapper like vzctl.

I just got virtuals: fedora, centos, debian lenny/squeeze, ubuntu, all without
problems (only sometimes when updating virtual to new release)

Robert.


Dne St 13. ledna 2010 15:58:37 Sthu Deus napsal(a):
> Good day.
>
>
> As I have heard that vserver package does not work well in Debian, I would
> like to hear Your opinion (if any) on what is working more stable (well
> for use in production systems):
>
> 1. vserver
> 2. openvz
> 3. something else
>
>
> Thanks for Your time.
>
> PS Please, reply to the list.
>


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Old 01-13-2010, 08:35 PM
Steve Kemp
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

On Wed Jan 13, 2010 at 21:58:37 +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

> As I have heard that vserver package does not work well in Debian, I would like to hear Your opinion (if any) on what is working more stable (well for use in production systems):
>
> 1. vserver
> 2. openvz
> 3. something else

You need to say what you're using them for. Otherwise people who have
experience with vserver will say it rocks, people who use openvz will
say that rocks, and people using Xen will say that's even better.

If you're using it for something specific then your needs and
preferences will be adjusted accordingly.

e.g. vserver means that all guests share the same kernel as the host
system, and that memory can be overcommitted if you want it to be.

If you run Xen or KVM then each guest will be fully isolated and
can run different kernels.

Is that a good thing? It depends what you're using the guests for,
and how much overhead you want.

In practise if you're doing "nothing special", such as just hosting
apache & ssh, then all of them are about equal. There is no single
clear winner, and choosing will be a matter of:

* Which is easiest to install/manage/use.
* Which has best documentation.
* Which people nearby are using, so you can chat about in the pub.

For me? Xen was good, but the slow progress of getting it into the
mainline kernel meant there was a long period where you couldn't run it
on "modern" (new) hardware. So KVM wins.

Other people will mention openbox, vmware, etc. At the end of the day
you should decide why you want it, what it must do then try out one or
two. Chances are many of the options will be good enough - but asking
"Which is best" is not a useful way forward; different people have
different use-cases and different biases.


Steve
--
http://www.steve.org.uk/


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Old 01-14-2010, 09:28 AM
Michal
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

>
> You need to say what you're using them for. Otherwise people who have
> experience with vserver will say it rocks, people who use openvz will
> say that rocks, and people using Xen will say that's even better.
>
> If you're using it for something specific then your needs and
> preferences will be adjusted accordingly.
>
> e.g. vserver means that all guests share the same kernel as the host
> system, and that memory can be overcommitted if you want it to be.
>
> If you run Xen or KVM then each guest will be fully isolated and
> can run different kernels.
>
> Is that a good thing? It depends what you're using the guests for,
> and how much overhead you want.
>
> In practise if you're doing "nothing special", such as just hosting
> apache & ssh, then all of them are about equal. There is no single
> clear winner, and choosing will be a matter of:
>
> * Which is easiest to install/manage/use.
> * Which has best documentation.
> * Which people nearby are using, so you can chat about in the pub.
>
> For me? Xen was good, but the slow progress of getting it into the
> mainline kernel meant there was a long period where you couldn't run it
> on "modern" (new) hardware. So KVM wins.
>
> Other people will mention openbox, vmware, etc. At the end of the day
> you should decide why you want it, what it must do then try out one or
> two. Chances are many of the options will be good enough - but asking
> "Which is best" is not a useful way forward; different people have
> different use-cases and different biases.


He is right, I have a setup of VMware ESXi servers, vCenter, vSphere etc
and this works very well for me, but by the sounds of it over kill for
you, so what do you want to do


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Old 01-14-2010, 09:52 AM
randall
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

Sthu Deus wrote:

Good day.


As I have heard that vserver package does not work well in Debian, I would like to hear Your opinion (if any) on what is working more stable (well for use in production systems):

1. vserver
2. openvz
3. something else


Thanks for Your time.

PS Please, reply to the list.



as mentioned by the others, every cool feature usually has a
disadvantage so its what you use it for.


besides that i have been running VServer for about 5 years now without
any big problems.


its light, stable and fast
thanks to the fact it shares the same kernel with the host and all the
guests, but this could be a disadvantage if you need a seperate kernel
per guest.


Openvz basically is somewhere in the same league as VServer, i started
with VServer and it did what i wanted + a active and extremely helpfull
mailinglist so i never looked back




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Old 01-14-2010, 10:39 AM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

Thank You for Your time and answer, Boyd:

>Xen.

Why?


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Old 01-14-2010, 10:43 AM
Sthu Deus
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

Thank You for Your time and answer, randall:

>thanks to the fact it shares the same kernel with the host and all the
>guests, but this could be a disadvantage if you need a seperate kernel
>per guest.

One of the reasons I would like to use virtualization is security... so, how does using of a single kernel affect total security/separation - at my view - it does not help in this view. Though I do not know how openvz or xen work...

>Openvz basically is somewhere in the same league as VServer, i started
>with VServer and it did what i wanted + a active and extremely helpfull
>mailinglist so i never looked back

Did You compile Your own kernels for Debian? - And then ever after - on update?


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Old 01-14-2010, 11:16 AM
randall
 
Default Which virtualization is the best for Debian?

Sthu Deus wrote:

Thank You for Your time and answer, randall:


thanks to the fact it shares the same kernel with the host and all the
guests, but this could be a disadvantage if you need a seperate kernel
per guest.



One of the reasons I would like to use virtualization is security... so, how does using of a single kernel affect total security/separation - at my view - it does not help in this view. Though I do not know how openvz or xen work...


i'm not an expert but i will explain a little what i think i know.

xen and vmware can give you the best seperation/security because each
guest will run its own kernel, this will affect the performance however
since you are simply running several complete operating systems ( you
could run linux in 1 guest, windows in another and FreeBSd in yet
another etc... )


VServer and i guess also openvz are simply a very smart way of using
chroot to isolate several services just like the jails utility in
FreeBSD, this off course has the advantage that there is no performance
overhead , VServer is set up by default not to allow the guest direct
access to the kernel but for some programs, like bind, you have to
loosen up the privileges to the kernel a little so this brings a little
risk although most programs will run without any modification needed.


also, with xen and vmware you can run a firewall inside each guest
itself as well which you can not do with VServer since this needs kernel
access, with VServer i have the firewall on the host system
allowing/blocking traffic to the guests.




Openvz basically is somewhere in the same league as VServer, i started
with VServer and it did what i wanted + a active and extremely helpfull
mailinglist so i never looked back



Did You compile Your own kernels for Debian? - And then ever after - on update?

some do, but i always use the vserver patched kernel from the repos, it
never gave me any problems and i'm always assured of the security
updates, did not have any issue when upgrading from etch to lenny.


The thing you heard was broken is the vserver-debiantools package which
apparently is in a bad state for years already ( have used these in the
past and still do, but i never experienced a problem myself ).
But you simply do not need this package, just follow the directions on
the VServer wiki









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