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Old 01-01-2010, 05:51 PM
Rick Thomas
 
Default install -- netboot vs netinst vs businesscard Debian installer CDs

On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Stephen Powell wrote:


On 2009-12-31 at 14:43:44 -0500, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

That would be netinst, not netboot.


Whatever. All I can say is that I downloaded

dists/lenny/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

from a public Debian mirror, burned it to a CD-R, and booted from it.
I then proceeded to install Lenny from a public Debian mirror without
setting up any special server. And it worked great. Why it worked,
I don't know. Maybe it wasn't supposed to work. Maybe it shouldn't
have worked. But it did! Explanations, anyone?



Here's a datapoint...

Today I did the same for the PowerPC version of the netboot/mini.iso
(13 MB) and used it to install squeeze on my testing PowerMac G4.
Worked a treat.


And what's really cool is that the businesscard and netinst CD's
didn't work! They boot OK, but get seg-faults as soon as the
installer tries to start up.


Go figure!

Happy "aught-ten" to all!

Rick


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Old 01-02-2010, 12:44 AM
Stephen Powell
 
Default install -- netboot vs netinst vs businesscard Debian installer CDs

On 2010-01-01 at 13:51:59 -0500, Rick Thomas wrote:
> Here's a datapoint...
>
> Today I did the same for the PowerPC version of the netboot/mini.iso
> (13 MB) and used it to install squeeze on my testing PowerMac G4.
> Worked a treat.
>
> And what's really cool is that the businesscard and netinst CD's
> didn't work! They boot OK, but get seg-faults as soon as the
> installer tries to start up.
>
> Go figure!

If you used the "production" version of the Squeeze installer you
were actually using the Lenny installer, since there has not been
an upload of the new Debian Installer code since Lenny became the
stable release. For example, in the Debian archive,

dists/squeeze/main/installer-powerpc/current

is a symbolic link to

dists/lenny/main/installer-powerpc/current

I'm glad you found something that worked, but at this moment the
only versions of the Debian Installer that are approved for installing
Squeeze are the "daily builds" on the development pages for
Debian Installer.

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/


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Old 01-02-2010, 03:45 AM
Rick Thomas
 
Default install -- netboot vs netinst vs businesscard Debian installer CDs

On Jan 1, 2010, at 8:44 PM, Stephen Powell wrote:


On 2010-01-01 at 13:51:59 -0500, Rick Thomas wrote:

Here's a datapoint...

Today I did the same for the PowerPC version of the netboot/mini.iso
(13 MB) and used it to install squeeze on my testing PowerMac G4.
Worked a treat.

And what's really cool is that the businesscard and netinst CD's
didn't work! They boot OK, but get seg-faults as soon as the
installer tries to start up.

Go figure!


If you used the "production" version of the Squeeze installer you
were actually using the Lenny installer, since there has not been
an upload of the new Debian Installer code since Lenny became the
stable release. For example, in the Debian archive,

dists/squeeze/main/installer-powerpc/current

is a symbolic link to

dists/lenny/main/installer-powerpc/current

I'm glad you found something that worked, but at this moment the
only versions of the Debian Installer that are approved for installing
Squeeze are the "daily builds" on the development pages for
Debian Installer.

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/




I'm pretty sure it was not the lenny installer. I installed in
"expert" mode and it offered a menu to let me install stable, testing,
or unstable. This is something that the lenny installer doesn't do,
if I'm not mistaken.


In any case, I got the iso from this URL:

http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/

And the particular iso I downloaded was:

Index of /debian/dists/sid/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/
powerpc/netboot

[ ] mini.iso 17-Dec-2009 05:34 13M
Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) Server at http.us.debian.org Port 80

I don't know why the date is 17-Dec-2009, not something more recent.
Maybe that's why it worked? More recent ones are broken?

I'm fairly sure it ran the Sid d-i. It's behavior was identical to
the behavior

of the "businesscard" install CD from this URL:
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/sid_d-i/arch-latest/powerpc/iso-cd/
when the businesscard install works (which it doesn't, right now...)

I'm CC-ing debain-boot, Maybe somebody there knows what's actually
going on here...


Enjoy!

Rick




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Old 01-02-2010, 02:36 PM
Stephen Powell
 
Default install -- netboot vs netinst vs businesscard Debian installer CDs

On 2010-01-01 at 23:45:08 -0500, Rick Thomas wrote:
> I'm pretty sure it was not the lenny installer. I installed in
> "expert" mode and it offered a menu to let me install stable, testing,
> or unstable. This is something that the lenny installer doesn't do,
> if I'm not mistaken.

I'm going from memory here; but if I recall correctly, which releases it
lets you install depends on which "Release" files it finds on the Debian
mirror you point it to, for a netinst or netboot install. It doesn't
necessarily mean that the installer you are using will work for the
release you are trying to install. For example, I earlier attempted
to install Squeeze using the Lenny installer (although I didn't know
at the time that it was the Lenny installer). I also installed in
expert mode, and it gave me a choice of which releases I wanted to install.
I chose Squeeze (testing). It mostly worked, except when it came time
to install the boot loader. Installation of grub failed, and I had to
install lilo instead. That's because Lenny uses grub (what Squeeze calls
grug-legacy) and Squeeze uses grub (what Lenny calls grub2). The Lenny
installer tried to use grub1 methods to install grub2 and it did not work.
It also installed some packages (such as console-tools on the i386
architecture) which are deprecated, and which the Squeeze installer
presumably wouldn't have installed.

> In any case, I got the iso from this URL:
>
> http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/
>
> And the particular iso I downloaded was:
>
> Index of /debian/dists/sid/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/
> powerpc/netboot
> [ ] mini.iso 17-Dec-2009 05:34 13M
> Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) Server at http.us.debian.org Port 80

I forgot to check Sid. I saw that the Squeeze installer was a duplicate of
the Lenny installer, but I forgot to check Sid. It does appear that this
installer is newer than the Lenny installer, and might work correctly to
install Squeeze.

>
> I don't know why the date is 17-Dec-2009, not something more recent.
> Maybe that's why it worked? More recent ones are broken?
>
> I'm fairly sure it ran the Sid d-i. It's behavior was identical to
> the behavior
> of the "businesscard" install CD from this URL:
> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/sid_d-i/arch-latest/powerpc/iso-cd/
> when the businesscard install works (which it doesn't, right now...)

They've had some build issues in the last several weeks. See the debian-cd
mailing list archive for discussions on these build issues. It seems to
me that the graphical installer, or lack thereof, was the cause of the
build issues somehow. Let's hope that they get this straightened out soon!


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Old 01-03-2010, 06:36 PM
Stephen Powell
 
Default install -- netboot vs netinst vs businesscard Debian installer CDs

On 2010-01-03 at 10:30:34, Paul E Condon wrote:
> I haven't been following this thread, but your statement
> caught my eye.

This thread started on debian-user with the original title of "Install".
A new user asked for help in finding the right images to download to
boot the Debian installer from a floppy disk. I replied that Etch was
the last Debian release which supported booting the installation system
from floppy disks. I said that if his computer BIOS didn't support
booting from a CD, one solution would be to install Etch by booting
from floppies and then upgrade to Lenny. I then recommended that if
his system did support booting from CDs, he should use the CD image

dists/lenny/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

That sparked two other lines of discussion. The first one was whether
this image was a "netboot" or a "netinst" image, and what was the
difference between the two. The second topic was which installer
should be used to install Squeeze.

At this point, my best guess is that this is a "netboot" image, which
is, strictly speaking, an oxymoron when it is used in this way
(i.e. burned to a real CD-R and booted directly), since by definition
you are not booting from the network if you are booting from a CD.
Nevertheless, it is my favorite installation image since it is
the smallest image (about 8M for the i386 architecture), is available
from the most locations (every Debian mirror), downloads quickly,
burns quickly, and is the least succeptible to bugs (since as much
code as possible is downloaded from the internet, where bug fixes
can accumulate after the image is burned). This boot
image contains just enough code to boot the machine and configure
the network. Everything else, including most of the installer code
itself, is downloaded from the internet.

As for installing Squeeze, I pointed out that the Lenny installer,
though it will let you install Squeeze with it, should not be used
to install Squeeze, and I pointed out that the "production" Squeeze
installer is actually the Lenny installer. I recommended the
"daily build" images available from the development pages for
Debian installer to install Squeeze. Someone else pointed out that
the Sid installer is apparently newer than the production Lenny
installer and that he had used the Sid version of the above
mini.iso image (for the power-pc architecture) to install Squeeze,
and encountered no difficulty. Someone said that the daily/weekly
build images don't work, and I replied that they have been having
build problems the last few weeks and referred him to the
debian-cd list for a discussion of the build problems. I can't
speak for others, but I'm not really trying to figure out what
went wrong at this point. I'm just waiting for the daily/weekly
build people to get their act together and start building daily/weekly
images that work and are accessable again. And that's where we
sit at this point. At this moment, it looks like the Sid version
of the mini.iso image

dists/sid/main/installer-i386/20091215/images/netboot/mini.iso

is the best bet to try a Squeeze install from scratch, since the
daily/weekly builds appear to be broken at the moment.


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