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Old 01-01-2010, 05:26 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

I noticed that some e-mails come back to this (and other) mailing lists
with the traditional '>' quote markers removed.

For instance, instead of the following:

------------------------------------------------+-----------------------
Message | Comments
------------------------------------------------+-----------------------
>>> poster one wrote: |
>> poster two schrieb: |
> poster three écrivit: |
poster four escribió: |
|
>>> quote from original post | [original poster]
>>> ... |
|
>> first reply - part one | [poster two]
>> ... |
|
> second reply | [poster three]
> .. |
|
>> first reply - part two | [poster two]
>> ... |
|
Third reply from some user | [poster four]
... |
------------------------------------------------+-----------------------

I see this:

------------------------------------------------+-----------------------
Message | Comments
------------------------------------------------+-----------------------
| poster names deleted
|
quote from original post | [original poster]
... |
|
first reply - part one | [poster two]
... |
|
second reply | [poster three]
.. |
|
first reply - part two | [poster two]
... |
|
Third reply from some user | [poster four]
... |
------------------------------------------------+-----------------------

Actually, it's even worse than this will show up as in the list, because
in the first example, with my mailer, the different quoting levels are
also colored differently, making it easy to tell at a glance who said
what, while the tampered version is all in the same default color.

With messages such as the second version, my options so far have been
directing the message to /dev/null without reading it, or on rare
occasions where I am genuinely interested in the content, fire up Vim
and painstakingly replace leading spaces by greater than signs so as to
make the message readable.

I have checked the raw messages by running less against the mailbox and
the '>' have indeed disappeared into thin air, so it's not a case of my
mailer not doing his job.

Is this caused by 'poster four' in the above example having manually
removed the markers, or is an attempt from the mailer he is using at
prettifying the message? I have not been able to determine a pattern.

Messages are content 'text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii' more often than not,
so it doesn't look like a misuse of format=flowed either.

Has anyone noticed this and possibly found a workaround?

Thank you for your comments.

CJ


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Old 01-01-2010, 06:33 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Fri,01.Jan.10, 13:26:59, Chris Jones wrote:
> I noticed that some e-mails come back to this (and other) mailing lists
> with the traditional '>' quote markers removed.

[...]

> Is this caused by 'poster four' in the above example having manually
> removed the markers, or is an attempt from the mailer he is using at
> prettifying the message? I have not been able to determine a pattern.

Watch the User-Agent/X-Mailer field in the header of those mails. Most
of the times it's the mailer...

> Messages are content 'text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii' more often than not,
> so it doesn't look like a misuse of format=flowed either.

...but on some rare occasions it could also be the user changing
configs.

> Has anyone noticed this and possibly found a workaround?

Finding technical solutions to a social problems? Good luck!

Regards,
Andrei
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:50 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Fri, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:33:32PM EST, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Fri,01.Jan.10, 13:26:59, Chris Jones wrote:
> > I noticed that some e-mails come back to this (and other) mailing lists
> > with the traditional '>' quote markers removed.
>
> [...]
>
> > Is this caused by 'poster four' in the above example having manually
> > removed the markers, or is an attempt from the mailer he is using at
> > prettifying the message? I have not been able to determine a pattern.
>
> Watch the User-Agent/X-Mailer field in the header of those mails. Most
> of the times it's the mailer...

I more or less did that.. visual-informal, that is.. but I was unable to
detect a pattern.

> > Messages are content 'text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii' more often than not,
> > so it doesn't look like a misuse of format=flowed either.
>
> ...but on some rare occasions it could also be the user changing
> configs.
>
> > Has anyone noticed this and possibly found a workaround?
>
> Finding technical solutions to a social problems? Good luck!

Of course not, first we use the techical to determine who's who and
who's doing what and then we shoot them, at dawn, preferably...

More to the point, couldn't the list managing program identify those
messages and email back the perps that it is very very naughty and they
need to stop doing it immediately, or else be spanked or even forcibly
unsubscribed from the list?

CJ


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Old 01-02-2010, 07:49 AM
"s. keeling"
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

Chris Jones <cjns1989@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:33:32PM EST, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > On Fri,01.Jan.10, 13:26:59, Chris Jones wrote:
> > > I noticed that some e-mails come back to this (and other) mailing lists
> > > with the traditional '>' quote markers removed.
> >
> > [...]
> [snip]
> More to the point, couldn't the list managing program identify those
> messages and email back the perps that it is very very naughty and they
> need to stop doing it immediately, or else be spanked or even forcibly
> unsubscribed from the list?

Please, no. I hate seeing badly formatted stuff as much as you (trust
me!), but it's best to communicate if we can. That's the sharp end.
All else's gravy.

HNY! Accept that some can't/won't live up to your/our expectations. Drat!


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Old 01-02-2010, 09:36 AM
Chris Jones
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 03:49:56AM EST, s. keeling wrote:
> Chris Jones <cjns1989@gmail.com>:

[...]

> > More to the point, couldn't the list managing program identify
> > those messages and email back the perps that it is very very
> > naughty and they need to stop doing it immediately, or else be
> > spanked or even forcibly unsubscribed from the list?

> Please, no. I hate seeing badly formatted stuff as much as you (trust
> me!), but it's best to communicate if we can. That's the sharp end.
> All else's gravy.

I was wondering about automating the communication. My guess is that
most of these users don't know what they are doing and don't realize
that they are hurting themselves because some won't even bother reading
their posts.

> HNY! Accept that some can't/won't live up to your/our expectations.
> Drat!

Well, at least now I know I'm not the only one.

:-)

CJ



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Old 01-02-2010, 10:55 AM
Camaleón
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:50:47 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:33:32PM EST, Andrei Popescu wrote:

>> Finding technical solutions to a social problems? Good luck!
>
> Of course not, first we use the techical to determine who's who and
> who's doing what and then we shoot them, at dawn, preferably...
>
> More to the point, couldn't the list managing program identify those
> messages and email back the perps that it is very very naughty and they
> need to stop doing it immediately, or else be spanked or even forcibly
> unsubscribed from the list?

I agree with Andrei.

The best approach for such situation is just getting the user to be aware
of what is he/she doing. They usually do know nothing about e-mail
threads and mailing list format so telling them about the benefits of
having their MUA configured in the right way is usually just enough.

In a corporate environment, "threading" is not much used with normal
correspondece and e-mail clients are configured to use html format, no
quoting in replies and to posting, just opposite the way it should be
done for mailing lists.

Educating them it always better than "shooting" them ;-)

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 01-02-2010, 04:46 PM
RobertHoltzman
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 11:55:59AM +0000, Camale�n wrote:
>
> Educating them it always better than "shooting" them ;-)

I dunno, thinning the herd has its merits :-)

--
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GPG key ID = 8D549279
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check the price of the beer.
 
Old 01-02-2010, 07:18 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 06:55:59AM EST, Camaleón wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:50:47 -0500, Chris Jones wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:33:32PM EST, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>
> >> Finding technical solutions to a social problems? Good luck!
> >
> > Of course not, first we use the techical to determine who's who and
> > who's doing what and then we shoot them, at dawn, preferably...
> >
> > More to the point, couldn't the list managing program identify those
> > messages and email back the perps that it is very very naughty and they
> > need to stop doing it immediately, or else be spanked or even forcibly
> > unsubscribed from the list?
>
> I agree with Andrei.
>
> The best approach for such situation is just getting the user to be aware
> of what is he/she doing. They usually do know nothing about e-mail
> threads and mailing list format so telling them about the benefits of
> having their MUA configured in the right way is usually just enough.
>
> In a corporate environment, "threading" is not much used with normal
> correspondece and e-mail clients are configured to use html format, no
> quoting in replies and to posting, just opposite the way it should be
> done for mailing lists.
>
> Educating them it always better than "shooting" them ;-)

What I had in mind was more along the lines of a short description of
the problem in 'neutral but no uncertain terms' and why it causes grief
in a threaded context such as mailing lists, something fairly 'official'
posted somewhere online that we could refer them to.

For all I know, such resource already exists, and if not I'm surprised
it doesn't.

And though it's probably not feasible, having the list's managing
software inform posters automatically might even be more productive.

Since I was not too optimistic as to that all that happening any time
soon, I recommended spanking, banning.. did I actually say shooting..

Oh, well..

HNY, anyways..

CJ


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Old 01-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 12:46:03PM EST, RobertHoltzman wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 11:55:59AM +0000, Camale�n wrote:
> >
> > Educating them it always better than "shooting" them ;-)
>
> I dunno, thinning the herd has its merits :-)

:-)

CJ


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Old 01-03-2010, 02:23 AM
Celejar
 
Default Removing the indent-string quote marker '>' in emails.

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:50:47 -0500
Chris Jones <cjns1989@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:33:32PM EST, Andrei Popescu wrote:

...

> > Finding technical solutions to a social problems? Good luck!
>
> Of course not, first we use the techical to determine who's who and
> who's doing what and then we shoot them, at dawn, preferably...

What's wrong with using technical solutions to solve social problems?
Isn't that what things like spam filtering are all about?

Celejar
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