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Old 01-06-2008, 08:31 PM
Hugo Vanwoerkom
 
Default tapes best for backup?

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Ron Johnson wrote:

On 01/05/08 15:16, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

Douglas A. Tutty wrote:

[snip]





<snip>

Interestingly enough, I can still use the IBM floppies that an old
version of OS/2 came on in 1988. I've had new floppies fail but not
those old IBM ones. Go figure.


My wife keeps insisting that my Windows95 on those IBM floppies are
still good. Let me give it a try. They are from 1990.


Windows95 on 1990 floppies???



Got the floppies when I left IBM in 1990. Put Windows95 on them when I
bought that in 1995?. But let me see, I can only find disk 10 + 11.

And...


of all those IBM floppies I can only write to 2

Hugo


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Old 01-06-2008, 09:58 PM
Rick Thomas
 
Default tapes best for backup?

On Jan 5, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Rick Thomas wrote:



On Jan 5, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:


On Sat, Jan 05, 2008 at 02:53:45AM -0500, Rick Thomas wrote:


As a registered pack-rat, I've got a drawer full of similar old CD-
Rs. If I get ambitious and I've got some free time, I'll try a
bunch

more, just for fun...


I wonder what cdck would show. It tests not only ability to read the
files, but counts any otherwise silent errors as well. It also
automates the reading every file process.


OK. There seems to be a "cdck" package in Debian Etch. If I get
ambitious and test (some of) the other CD-Rs in that drawer, I'll
use cdck for the tests. Don't hold your breath for results, but if
I do it, I'll post anything I find here.


Interesting...

I tried cdck on two CDs:

The first was a CD-RW I just wrote last night. It said it was
"satisfactory". The longest time was on the order of 0.5 sec, and
there were about a dozen of them, mostly near the beginning of the disk.


The second was one of my ten-year-old archive disks. It, cdck, said
it was unacceptable, based on a couple of dozen unreadable sectors --
all at the end of the disk. The rest of the disk looked a lot like
the first one, except that the maximum time was on the order of 0.7
sec, and there were only about a half-dozen of them, scattered near
the beginning of the disk.


The "bad" sectors at the end of the disk obviously weren't in any
files, so they don't affect the quality of the disk as an archive. I
wonder what mechanism there is that only affects sectors at the end
of the disk? Maybe the original drive that wrote it ten years ago
put a few garbage sectors on each disk it wrote as part of the
closing-out process??? Anybody know for sure?


Rick



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Old 01-06-2008, 10:53 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default tapes best for backup?

On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 03:31:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:

> of all those IBM floppies I can only write to 2
>

Try a few straight reads to /dev/null just to scrape them clean.

Doug.


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Old 01-07-2008, 02:10 AM
Rick Thomas
 
Default tapes best for backup?

On Jan 6, 2008, at 6:53 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:


On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 03:31:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:


of all those IBM floppies I can only write to 2



Try a few straight reads to /dev/null just to scrape them clean.


After that, use a cleaning disk to clean the heads of the floppy
drive...


Rick


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Old 01-07-2008, 07:18 PM
David Brodbeck
 
Default tapes best for backup?

On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Rick Thomas wrote:
After that, use a cleaning disk to clean the heads of the floppy
drive...


I find I have to do this a lot, these days. Floppy drives don't get
used much, so they get packed full of dust.



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Old 01-07-2008, 07:40 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default tapes best for backup?

On 01/07/08 14:18, David Brodbeck wrote:


On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Rick Thomas wrote:

After that, use a cleaning disk to clean the heads of the floppy drive...


I find I have to do this a lot, these days. Floppy drives don't get
used much, so they get packed full of dust.


I haven't had (nor have I needed) a floppy drive in my machine since
2003.


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown


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Old 01-07-2008, 09:07 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default tapes best for backup?

On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:40:07PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 01/07/08 14:18, David Brodbeck wrote:
> >
> >On Jan 6, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Rick Thomas wrote:
> >>After that, use a cleaning disk to clean the heads of the floppy drive...
> >
> >I find I have to do this a lot, these days. Floppy drives don't get
> >used much, so they get packed full of dust.
>
> I haven't had (nor have I needed) a floppy drive in my machine since
> 2003.

I have three boxes:

486 with floppy and Zip

P-II with floppy, Zip, and USB

Athlon64 with Zip and USB, and CD/DVD burner.

I use the Zip more than floppies if I'm doing a sneaker-net during a box
rebuild but other than that I use scp.

Doug.


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Old 01-09-2008, 05:24 PM
Joe Brenner
 
Default tapes best for backup?

David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote:
> s. keeling wrote:

> > I've never run across a CD I couldn't still read, and I've a few old
> > ones. DVD, I would expect to be even better. For me, tape's good
> > enough.

> Why would you expect DVD to be better? I'd expect it to be worse, for
> the obvious reasons -- smaller physical bit representations, packed
> tighter.

Yes, about 8x tighter, as I understand it.

> Also we don't have as much experience with it, so I take what
> information we *do* have with larger quantities of salt.

Also, there's a complication with evaluating accumulated "experience":
you may know that ten-year-old DVDs are working fine, but you're
burning on to new DVDs that were manufactured this year. There's no way
to know if some cost-cutting measure has changed their reliability.

Myself, I've been using DVDs for backup largely out of laziness/convenience.
I still have a DAT drive (SCSI, DDS-2... I think) that can do around
2 gigabytes on a tape, which I will probably switch back to for long term
storage. As for "on-line" backups: I mirror my working files between
workstation and laptop.


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