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Old 03-07-2009, 01:33 AM
Hal Vaughan
 
Default top-posting

On Mar 6, 2009, at 8:48 PM, Paul E Condon wrote:


Top posting in response to a top post is etiquette. Gloating over the
fact that fellow human being is put-off by your behavior is not. Top
posting because your email software is incapable of doing otherwise is
somewhat like being a child with 'special needs'. The rest of us
should be grown up enough to accept you as you are.

Personally, I would like not to impose on the good nature of others,
except of course to avoid embarrassing a person with 'special needs.'

One absolute rule of modern etiquette, as I understand it, is that one
NEVER enquire as to whether one's interlocutor is a person with
'special needs'.


This gives cause to think, and I'm not "going after" anyone in
particular (and that includes Paul). If it breaks etiquette to top
post, how seriously does it break etiquette to complain about top
posting, in public, in front of everyone, instead of writing a polite
email to the top poster in private?


If it's about etiquette, then wouldn't that almost demand that those
who find top posting inappropriate kindly pass on the information to
the offending party in private? Or has it suddenly become okay to
dress people down for their transgressions in a public forum?


Top posting, other than maybe a quick "Thank you, it works now!" may
be incorrect in terms of etiquette, but then it seems to me, dealing
with that in public, when one knows that on a list like this it'll
spark a debate that will only draw more attention to the post and
person in error, would be even worse than the original sin of top
posting.




Hal
(Who thought all the discussions like this would disappear after Lenny
came out...)



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Old 03-07-2009, 06:32 AM
karun
 
Default top-posting

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:04:47 -0800, Wendell Cochran <atrypa@eskimo.com>
wrote:
>> Date: Fri Mar *6 11:06:29 2009
>> From: Joe McDonagh
>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
>>> Hey Steve, I love that just by typing up here above e-mails I can
>>> make smug users like you go postal. I feel powerful.
>
>
> Top-posting inconveniences almost everyone -- not only Steve Lamb.
>
> Wendell Cochran
> West Seattle

Top Posting is an unfortunate side effect, of Microsoft Outlook becoming
the standard for non Opensource computer software users.


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Old 03-07-2009, 07:01 AM
Jan Ingvoldstad
 
Default top-posting

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:32 AM, karun <karun@mail.karund.de> wrote:

> Top Posting is an unfortunate side effect, of Microsoft Outlook becoming
> the standard for non Opensource computer software users.

Well, Google with Gmail certainly aren't helping.

I also thoroughly loathe answers in the form "my response in green
below", where the Outlook users have tried to answer each point in
turn, but failed in the point that Outlook doesn't make this easy for
the rest of us.

Usually, top posting is a sign that the poster might as well not have
quoted the original text at all, since the quoted text rarely aids in
understanding.

I agree, though, that complaining publicly on a mailing list regarding
one part's choice of quoting or not usually is bad netiquette.
--
Jan


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Old 03-07-2009, 07:02 AM
CaT
 
Default top-posting

On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 08:32:27AM +0100, karun wrote:
> Top Posting is an unfortunate side effect, of Microsoft Outlook becoming
> the standard for non Opensource computer software users.

Actually, I'd say it was a side-effect of pine in the unix world and any
graphical client everywhere else.

I'm not really suprised. There are few editors around that make proper
quoting easy. I can only think of vim, really. Anything else I've used,
especially graphical editors, make it a pain.

Then there are the quoting methods some email clients use, esp those
that focus on html. Astoundingly annoying.

And THEN we have knobs like those on hotmail. They wont even give you
access to the quoted text. They just have it dangling at the end of
your email like a poorly processed turd.

Meh.

--
"A search of his car uncovered pornography, a homemade sex aid, women's
stockings and a Jack Russell terrier."
- http://www.news.com.au/story/0%2C27574%2C24675808-421%2C00.html


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Old 03-07-2009, 07:24 AM
Steve Lamb
 
Default top-posting

karun wrote:
> Top Posting is an unfortunate side effect, of Microsoft Outlook becoming
> the standard for non Opensource computer software users.

Outlook as an excuse for top-posting went out the window circa 2002.
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Also the base Outlook can be configured to make interleave responses
possible. Not pretty, mind, but possible. Having been forced to use Lookout!
at work for the past several years I do know that much.

--
Steve C. Lamb | But who can decide what they dream
PGP Key: 1FC01004 | and dream I do
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------
 
Old 03-07-2009, 09:17 AM
Tzafrir Cohen
 
Default top-posting

On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:01:34PM -0700, Paul E Condon wrote:
>
> There is a big world out there beyond the confines of the Debian
> lists. There is a lot of top posting out there. It must be easy for
> twits to come to believe that top posting is always, and everywhere,
> OK. And that people who object are fair game for intimidation. and
> ridicule, but --- here on Debian lists is a special place. Here is a
> place for people who are above the common herd. And. no, this is not
> sarcasm.

Top-posting works great in places where you have a common archive and
thus don't have to carry the full context in your message.

--
Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


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Old 03-07-2009, 09:44 AM
Tzafrir Cohen
 
Default top-posting

On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:47AM -0500, Daryl Styrk wrote:
> I myself don't care for top posting. It just tosses a wrench in a
> nicely flowing thread. I have started playing around with mutt the last
> week or so, and I now appreciate how netiquette has come to be.
> Specifically to mailing lists. Top posting, HTML, 2-3 pages of quoted
> text to see "Thanks that did it" etc.

To protect yourself from such evils:

aptitude install t-prot

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Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
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Old 03-07-2009, 09:53 AM
Steve Lamb
 
Default top-posting

Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> Top-posting works great in places where you have a common archive and
> thus don't have to carry the full context in your message.

Er, what? Top-posting requires you to carry the *full* context of the
entire thread in every message!

--
Steve C. Lamb | But who can decide what they dream
PGP Key: 1FC01004 | and dream I do
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------
 
Old 03-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Stephan Seitz
 
Default top-posting

On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:24:05AM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:

Outlook as an excuse for top-posting went out the window circa 2002.
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/


If I understand this well enough, quotefix won’t work if you are using
Word as an editor for mails. This is done quite often, because Word
provides on-the-fly spelling checks.


Shade and sweet water!

Stephan

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| PGP Public Keys: http://fsing.rootsland.net/~stse/pgp.html |
 
Old 03-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Sjors Gielen
 
Default top-posting

Stephan Seitz schreef:

On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:24:05AM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote:

Outlook as an excuse for top-posting went out the window circa 2002.
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/


If I understand this well enough, quotefix won’t work if you are using
Word as an editor for mails. This is done quite often, because Word
provides on-the-fly spelling checks.


Shade and sweet water!

Stephan



IIRC, Outlook uses the same backend/whatever they call that for editing
as Word, i.e. you don't need to write e-mails with Word because Outlook
provides those same functionalities. Not sure though, I haven't used
Outlook in ages.


User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209)
Or the same client on Linux.

Sjors


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