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Old 03-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Star Liu
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
superior of the two methods? thanks.


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Old 03-04-2009, 08:15 AM
Mirco Piccin
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

Hi,

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:

I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source

platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested

in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop

applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is

the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the

superior of the two methods? thanks.


Did you consider to use Qt?

Regards
M
 
Old 03-04-2009, 09:04 AM
Star Liu
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Mirco Piccin <pictux@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
>> platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
>> in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
>> applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
>> the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
>> superior of the two methods? thanks.
>
> Did you consider to use Qt?
no, i heard it's not free software.

> Regards
> M
>
>


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Old 03-04-2009, 09:10 AM
Kelly Clowers
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 01:04, Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
> platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
> in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
> applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
> the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
> superior of the two methods? thanks.

This is off topic for this list, but since I am replying anyway...


GTK and QT are traditional toolkits that are use for building apps.
They are comparable to WinForms (.NET), MFC (Win), or AppKit
(OS X).

Gecko is technically the rendering engine at the heart of XULRunner,
otherwise known as the Mozilla Platform. XUL is Mozilla's XML
User interface Language, which is used for Firefox's "Chrome" -
all the UI elements around the web page. XUL is rendered with
Gecko, just like HTML, and the UI is driven with Javascript.

XULRunner's use of XML and Javascript might make it easier
for a Web dev to write an app, but I suspect you would have to
write some amount of C++. In any case, you would have to learn
how the JS wraps the C++ interface, which is rather different
from the DOM.

QT is written in C++ and GTK is C with GLib/GObject. I know
you can write the bulk of a GTK program in Python; QT has
QTScript (ecmascript) and some support for Python and
Ruby, although I don't know if the majority of a QT program
can be written with any of those.

A XULRunner program will be larger (on disk and in memory)
and slower than a GTK or QT program. A large, complex
program will suffer less from this than a small or trivial
program.

XULRunner make the most sense if you are going to be
rendering html or doing networking with your program anyway.

It is worth noting that QT is a very complete framework, more
so even than XULRunner, and it includes QTWebkit. In the
just released QT 4.5, the Webkit is close to the version used
in the new Safari 4 betas.

GTK is more loosely joined, with many parts run as separate
but allied projects (e.g. Pango, the text engine), and in some
cases there are several projects that might fill a need, with
none really official.

All three are now available under the LGPL, and QT and
Moz have some other license options.


I suggest you check out the sites and maybe ask some
specific questions (not "which is better") on the appropriate
forums/mailing lists and decide which is better for you.

http://developer.mozilla.org/En/XULRunner
http://www.gtk.org/
http://www.qtsoftware.com/


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Old 03-04-2009, 11:07 AM
Star Liu
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Kelly Clowers <kelly.clowers@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 01:04, Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
>> platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
>> in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
>> applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
>> the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
>> superior of the two methods? thanks.
>
> This is off topic for this list, but since I am replying anyway...
>
>
> GTK and QT are traditional toolkits that are use for building apps.
> They are comparable to WinForms (.NET), *MFC (Win), or AppKit
> (OS X).
>
> Gecko is technically the rendering engine at the heart of XULRunner,
> otherwise known as the Mozilla Platform. XUL is Mozilla's XML
> User interface Language, which is used for Firefox's "Chrome" -
> all the UI elements around the web page. XUL is rendered with
> Gecko, just like HTML, and the UI is driven with Javascript.
>
> XULRunner's use of XML and Javascript might make it easier
> for a Web dev to write an app, but I suspect you would have to
> write some amount of C++. In any case, you would have to learn
> how the JS wraps the C++ interface, which is rather different
> from the DOM.
>
> QT is written in C++ and GTK is C with GLib/GObject. I know
> you can write the bulk of a GTK program in Python; QT has
> QTScript (ecmascript) and some support for Python and
> Ruby, although I don't know if the majority of a QT program
> can be written with any of those.
>
> A XULRunner program will be larger (on disk and in memory)
> and slower than a GTK or QT program. A large, complex
> program will suffer less from this than a small or trivial
> program.
>
> XULRunner make the most sense if you are going to be
> rendering html or doing networking with your program anyway.
>
> It is worth noting that QT is a very complete framework, more
> so even than XULRunner, and it includes QTWebkit. In the
> just released QT 4.5, the Webkit is close to the version used
> in the new Safari 4 betas.
>
> GTK is more loosely joined, with many parts run as separate
> but allied projects (e.g. Pango, the text engine), and in some
> cases there are several projects that might fill a need, with
> none really official.
>
> All three are now available under the LGPL, and QT and
> Moz have some other license options.
>
>
> I suggest you check out the sites and maybe ask some
> specific questions (not "which is better") on the appropriate
> forums/mailing lists and decide which is better for you.
>
> http://developer.mozilla.org/En/XULRunner
> http://www.gtk.org/
> http://www.qtsoftware.com/
>
>
> Cheers,
> Kelly Clowers
>
thank you. My task is to make a "Optical Freedom Surfaces Design
Tool", for example, given a math expression for a surface, I will
display the 2D/3D picture of the surface, and do some other operation
around the surface.
I want to make this tool by fully free software, I think gecko is not
proper for my task, but I don't know how to choose between qt and
gtk+.

> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>


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Old 03-04-2009, 11:09 AM
Tzafrir Cohen
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 06:04:45PM +0800, Star Liu wrote:

> > Did you consider to use Qt?
> no, i heard it's not free software.

QT has been free software for quite some time. For a while after that
GPL-based programs that used QT (such as KDE) had a license issue as the
license of QT was incompatible with the GPL. This issue was resolved by
making QT also licensed under the terms of the GPL. And ever since we
had KDE in Debian.

As of QT 4.5 (released yesterday), QT is also licensed under the terms
of LGPL.

--
Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


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Old 03-04-2009, 11:16 AM
Thierry Chatelet
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On 4 March 2009 13:07:42 Star Liu wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Kelly Clowers <kelly.clowers@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 01:04, Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
> >> platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
> >> in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
> >> applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
> >> the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
> >> superior of the two methods? thanks.
> >
> > This is off topic for this list, but since I am replying anyway...
> >
> >
> > GTK and QT are traditional toolkits that are use for building apps.
> > They are comparable to WinForms (.NET), *MFC (Win), or AppKit
> > (OS X).
> >
> > Gecko is technically the rendering engine at the heart of XULRunner,
> > otherwise known as the Mozilla Platform. XUL is Mozilla's XML
> > User interface Language, which is used for Firefox's "Chrome" -
> > all the UI elements around the web page. XUL is rendered with
> > Gecko, just like HTML, and the UI is driven with Javascript.
> >
> > XULRunner's use of XML and Javascript might make it easier
> > for a Web dev to write an app, but I suspect you would have to
> > write some amount of C++. In any case, you would have to learn
> > how the JS wraps the C++ interface, which is rather different
> > from the DOM.
> >
> > QT is written in C++ and GTK is C with GLib/GObject. I know
> > you can write the bulk of a GTK program in Python; QT has
> > QTScript (ecmascript) and some support for Python and
> > Ruby, although I don't know if the majority of a QT program
> > can be written with any of those.
> >
> > A XULRunner program will be larger (on disk and in memory)
> > and slower than a GTK or QT program. A large, complex
> > program will suffer less from this than a small or trivial
> > program.
> >
> > XULRunner make the most sense if you are going to be
> > rendering html or doing networking with your program anyway.
> >
> > It is worth noting that QT is a very complete framework, more
> > so even than XULRunner, and it includes QTWebkit. In the
> > just released QT 4.5, the Webkit is close to the version used
> > in the new Safari 4 betas.
> >
> > GTK is more loosely joined, with many parts run as separate
> > but allied projects (e.g. Pango, the text engine), and in some
> > cases there are several projects that might fill a need, with
> > none really official.
> >
> > All three are now available under the LGPL, and QT and
> > Moz have some other license options.
> >
> >
> > I suggest you check out the sites and maybe ask some
> > specific questions (not "which is better") on the appropriate
> > forums/mailing lists and decide which is better for you.
> >
> > http://developer.mozilla.org/En/XULRunner
> > http://www.gtk.org/
> > http://www.qtsoftware.com/
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Kelly Clowers
>
> thank you. My task is to make a "Optical Freedom Surfaces Design
> Tool", for example, given a math expression for a surface, I will
> display the 2D/3D picture of the surface, and do some other operation
> around the surface.
> I want to make this tool by fully free software, I think gecko is not
> proper for my task, but I don't know how to choose between qt and
> gtk+.
>
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> > listmaster@lists.debian.org

Lots of free software do that already. A single search gave me:
Opencascade, k3dsurf, Genius....


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Old 03-04-2009, 11:24 AM
Star Liu
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Thierry Chatelet <tchatelet@free.fr> wrote:
> On 4 March 2009 13:07:42 Star Liu wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Kelly Clowers <kelly.clowers@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 01:04, Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
>> >> platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
>> >> in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
>> >> applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
>> >> the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
>> >> superior of the two methods? thanks.
>> >
>> > This is off topic for this list, but since I am replying anyway...
>> >
>> >
>> > GTK and QT are traditional toolkits that are use for building apps.
>> > They are comparable to WinForms (.NET), *MFC (Win), or AppKit
>> > (OS X).
>> >
>> > Gecko is technically the rendering engine at the heart of XULRunner,
>> > otherwise known as the Mozilla Platform. XUL is Mozilla's XML
>> > User interface Language, which is used for Firefox's "Chrome" -
>> > all the UI elements around the web page. XUL is rendered with
>> > Gecko, just like HTML, and the UI is driven with Javascript.
>> >
>> > XULRunner's use of XML and Javascript might make it easier
>> > for a Web dev to write an app, but I suspect you would have to
>> > write some amount of C++. In any case, you would have to learn
>> > how the JS wraps the C++ interface, which is rather different
>> > from the DOM.
>> >
>> > QT is written in C++ and GTK is C with GLib/GObject. I know
>> > you can write the bulk of a GTK program in Python; QT has
>> > QTScript (ecmascript) and some support for Python and
>> > Ruby, although I don't know if the majority of a QT program
>> > can be written with any of those.
>> >
>> > A XULRunner program will be larger (on disk and in memory)
>> > and slower than a GTK or QT program. A large, complex
>> > program will suffer less from this than a small or trivial
>> > program.
>> >
>> > XULRunner make the most sense if you are going to be
>> > rendering html or doing networking with your program anyway.
>> >
>> > It is worth noting that QT is a very complete framework, more
>> > so even than XULRunner, and it includes QTWebkit. In the
>> > just released QT 4.5, the Webkit is close to the version used
>> > in the new Safari 4 betas.
>> >
>> > GTK is more loosely joined, with many parts run as separate
>> > but allied projects (e.g. Pango, the text engine), and in some
>> > cases there are several projects that might fill a need, with
>> > none really official.
>> >
>> > All three are now available under the LGPL, and QT and
>> > Moz have some other license options.
>> >
>> >
>> > I suggest you check out the sites and maybe ask some
>> > specific questions (not "which is better") on the appropriate
>> > forums/mailing lists and decide which is better for you.
>> >
>> > http://developer.mozilla.org/En/XULRunner
>> > http://www.gtk.org/
>> > http://www.qtsoftware.com/
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Kelly Clowers
>>
>> thank you. My task is to make a "Optical Freedom Surfaces Design
>> Tool", for example, given a math expression for a surface, I will
>> display the 2D/3D picture of the surface, and do some other operation
>> around the surface.
>> I want to make this tool by fully free software, I think gecko is not
>> proper for my task, but I don't know how to choose between qt and
>> gtk+.
>>
>> > --
>> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
>> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
>> > listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
> Lots of free software do that already. A single search gave me:
> Opencascade, k3dsurf, Genius....
>
thank you very much, it seems they are all good and just what i need,
i have to choose the best one again, do you have any idea?

> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>


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Old 03-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Thierry Chatelet
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On 4 March 2009 13:24:22 Star Liu wrote:
I suggest you check out the sites and maybe ask some
> >> > specific questions (not "which is better") on the appropriate
> >> > forums/mailing lists and decide which is better for you.
> >> >
> >> > Kelly Clowers
> >>
> >> thank you. My task is to make a "Optical Freedom Surfaces Design
> >> Tool", for example, given a math expression for a surface, I will
> >> display the 2D/3D picture of the surface, and do some other operation
> >> around the surface.
> >
> > Lots of free software do that already. A single search gave me:
> > Opencascade, k3dsurf, Genius....
>
> thank you very much, it seems they are all good and just what i need,
> i have to choose the best one again, do you have any idea?
>
> > --
As Kelly already told you, check out their site and make up your mind on which
one best suit your needs.
PS: Don't CC people unless they say it specificaly, as we are on the mailing
list.
Thierry


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Old 03-04-2009, 08:49 PM
Micha Feigin
 
Default what's the difference and superior between gtk+ and gecko?

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:04:28 +0800
Star Liu <minxinjianxin@gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to develop a cross-platform desktop software by open source
> platform and develop tools. I'm also a web developer so I'm interested
> in gecko, and know that gecko is also able to build desktop
> applications by XUL, not only display html files. But it seems gtk+ is
> the more normal way to develop desktop applications, then what's the
> superior of the two methods? thanks.
>
>

gtk+ is not ideal for cross platform because unless things changes it's not in
great shape under windows.

You have a few dedicated cross platform toolkits that are application oriented

My personal favorite is wxWidgets. Very mature, has a large support base and
the main developers earn a living from in (support contracts, not the code) so
they have a motivation to keep it going (it's not just dependent on whomever
comes along). It uses the lgpl license so it's free to link against and
distribute also in commercial apps (there are als a few commercial that use
it). It's main advantage is that is uses the local GUI on each platform
(windows, mac, gtk on linux, windows ce, I think also a few more). The
codeblocks ide is built with it and audacity.

http://www.wxwidgets.org/

There is also qt, if things haven't changes it has either a gpl lisence that
you don't pay for or a commercial license if you want to sell the software.
Alos very mature and stable. It draws it's own widgets so you get the same
appearance on all platforms.

There are a few others also, fox toolkit and fltk are a couple I remember (look
at http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/WxWidgets_Compared_To_Other_Toolkits)


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