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Old 02-19-2009, 06:44 AM
S D
 
Default Java in Debian 5

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:


> Does this now mean that we cannot instal and run Debian 5
> without Java,

No, it doesn't mean that. You can install and run Debian without Java.

> or that Debian cannot fully run without Java,
> in the same way that some versions of MS Windows cannot
> fully run without Internet Explorer?

Again, no. It means that Java SDK is now part of Debian distribution and people who want Java installed can install it, as you would install some arbitrary package.

HTH






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Old 02-19-2009, 09:23 AM
Aneurin Price
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
>
> On the web page at
> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#id2794519
> is stated:
>
> "2.7. Java now in Debian
>
> The OpenJDK Java Runtime Environment openjdk-6-jre and Development Kit
> openjdk-6-jdk, needed for executing Java GUI and Webstart programs or
> building such programs, are now in Debian. The packages are built using the
> IcedTea build support and patches from the IcedTea project."
>
> Does this now mean that we cannot instal and run Debian 5 without Java, or
> that Debian cannot fully run without Java, in the same way that some
> versions of MS Windows cannot fully run without Internet Explorer?
>

I hope you don't find this rude, but that seems like a very radical
interpretation of the text, and I'm really curious what gave you that
impression. Was it from the quoted section alone? I really can't see that
in there.

Nye


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Old 02-19-2009, 03:31 PM
Michael Pobega
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 04:07:05PM +0900, Bret Busby wrote:
>
> On the web page at
> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#id2794519
> is stated:
>
> "2.7. Java now in Debian
>
> The OpenJDK Java Runtime Environment openjdk-6-jre and Development Kit
> openjdk-6-jdk, needed for executing Java GUI and Webstart programs or
> building such programs, are now in Debian. The packages are built using
> the IcedTea build support and patches from the IcedTea project."
>
> Does this now mean that we cannot instal and run Debian 5 without Java,
> or that Debian cannot fully run without Java, in the same way that some
> versions of MS Windows cannot fully run without Internet Explorer?
>

If you choose to use Java programs, you'll obviously need Java for them.
But Debian doesn't come with anything that requires a Java interpreter
out of the box, so no, you can happily run Debian 5.0 without Java.

--
http://pobega.wordpress.com
http://identica/pobega


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Old 02-19-2009, 08:54 PM
francisco Quinonez
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On February 18, 2009 11:44:43 pm S D wrote:
> --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
> > Does this now mean that we cannot instal and run Debian 5
> > without Java,
>
> No, it doesn't mean that. You can install and run Debian without Java.
>
> > or that Debian cannot fully run without Java,
> > in the same way that some versions of MS Windows cannot
> > fully run without Internet Explorer?
>
> Again, no. It means that Java SDK is now part of Debian distribution and
> people who want Java installed can install it, as you would install some
> arbitrary package.
>
> HTH

The problem is, if it come on a standard installation as SELinux and probably
others; because in this case it becomes an obligation by default.

BTW, SElinux could control all linux boxes as Windows do it, this is the
method to create dependency and control.


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Old 02-19-2009, 10:04 PM
S D
 
Default Java in Debian 5

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, francisco Quinonez <franquinonez@gmail.com> wrote:

> The problem is, if it come on a standard installation as
> SELinux and probably
> others; because in this case it becomes an obligation by
> default.

What Java packages are you referring to? If you don't use any Java apps you should be able to remove Java without any ill effect.

> BTW, SElinux could control all linux boxes as Windows do
> it, this is the
> method to create dependency and control.

Dependency maybe, control no. Java is Free Software licensed under GNU, is it not?







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Old 02-20-2009, 12:11 AM
Alex Samad
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 01:54:39PM -0800, francisco Quinonez wrote:
> On February 18, 2009 11:44:43 pm S D wrote:
> > --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:

[snip]

> > Again, no. It means that Java SDK is now part of Debian distribution and
> > people who want Java installed can install it, as you would install some
> > arbitrary package.
> >
> > HTH
>
> The problem is, if it come on a standard installation as SELinux and probably
> others; because in this case it becomes an obligation by default.
>
> BTW, SElinux could control all linux boxes as Windows do it, this is the
> method to create dependency and control.

Why do we need SElinux, yuck yuck.

before I rant too much, is it a must install on debian 5.

>

[snip]


--
"The point is, this is a way to help inoculate me about what has come and is coming."

- George W. Bush
09/02/2000
on his anti-Gore ad, in an interview with the New York Times
 
Old 02-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Paul Johnson
 
Default Java in Debian 5

Bret Busby wrote:

> Does this now mean that we cannot instal and run Debian 5 without Java,
> or that Debian cannot fully run without Java, in the same way that some
> versions of MS Windows cannot fully run without Internet Explorer?

Mu. It means you can run Java programs without Sun Java or Blackdown
Java or IBM Java. OpenJDK is to java what linux is to UNIX.
 
Old 02-20-2009, 07:55 PM
Tzafrir Cohen
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:11:24PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:

> before I rant too much, is it a must install on debian 5.

No. And using it requires some effort.


--
Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


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Old 02-20-2009, 07:58 PM
Tzafrir Cohen
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:31:27AM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:

> If you choose to use Java programs, you'll obviously need Java for them.
> But Debian doesn't come with anything that requires a Java interpreter
> out of the box, so no, you can happily run Debian 5.0 without Java.

If you install the desktop task you also get OpenOffice.org that depends
on a Java JRE.

--
Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


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Old 02-21-2009, 01:55 AM
Bret Busby
 
Default Java in Debian 5

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:



On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:31:27AM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:


If you choose to use Java programs, you'll obviously need Java for them.
But Debian doesn't come with anything that requires a Java interpreter
out of the box, so no, you can happily run Debian 5.0 without Java.


If you install the desktop task you also get OpenOffice.org that depends
on a Java JRE.




So, to use Open Office, Java is needed?

I understood that Open Office could be run without Java, unless a person
wanted to use the Open Office database.


--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992

.................................................. ..


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