FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 01-25-2009, 09:40 AM
Tzafrir Cohen
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +0000, Bob Cox wrote:
> > I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and
> > receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well
> > and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support
> > available on this list.
>
> The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding.
>
> As more people go from Windoze --> Ubuntu --> Debian, it becomes more
> important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line
> help desk.

You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP.

If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a
specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with
Exim will comment.

To use your terminology: that's second-level support :-)

--
Tzafrir Cohen | tzafrir@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's
tzafrir@cohens.org.il | | best
ICQ# 16849754 | | friend


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-25-2009, 11:18 AM
Chris Bannister
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:40:39AM +0000, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +0000, Bob Cox wrote:
> > > I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and
> > > receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well
> > > and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support
> > > available on this list.
> >
> > The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding.
> >
> > As more people go from Windoze --> Ubuntu --> Debian, it becomes more
> > important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line
> > help desk.
>
> You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP.

Huh?

See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/01/msg02168.html

But please, It was not meant as a character assassination.

> If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a
> specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with
> Exim will comment.

The clause "as it's the Debian default it really should have more
support available on this list."

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=209844
and
http://pkg-exim4.alioth.debian.org/README/README.Debian.html#id226635
respectively.

Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it
should have *more* "support" than, say, postfix or any other MTA.

Hope this explains.

--
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-- Stephen F Roberts


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-25-2009, 01:01 PM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

* Chris Bannister <mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz> [2009 Jan 25 06:02 -0600]:

> Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it
> should have *more* "support" than, say, postfix or any other MTA.

Hold on a minute!

I'm not sure what caused this tempest in a teapot to occur, but suffice
it to say that since Exim4 is the *default* MTA I would expect more
experience with its configuration than with any of the other MTAs in
Debian. It's a raw numbers game and Exim4 should have more list
members available to offer support than the number 2 used MTA.

The fact that Exim4 doesn't get discussed much indicates that it must
work well enough out of the box for most users. Looking at the popcon
page, of those installations reporting, exim4-daemon-light is installed
by 68.10% of people and used by 65.03% of users. See:

http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=exim4

Now, it's quite possible that all Exim4 is doing on many of these
installations is simply handling daemon mail and the MUA of choice is
handling the smarthost duties. It's also quite possible that many
Debian users have a simple smarthost that doesn't require the special
configuration of GoDaddy's smarthost and this thread now exists to help
others, i.e. it will provide "support" in the future.

It's quite possible that the Postfix users may well be more
knowledgable per capita than the Exim4 users even though Postfix
appears to be the number 2 MTA used in Debian per:

http://popcon.debian.org/main/mail/by_inst

It seems to me that the level of support enjoyed by a particular
package is dependent on the experience of its users (a package with low
installation numbers and rank may have highly experienced and
knowledgable users) and the chance that such users subscribe to and
read this list. In other words, it's a craps shoot.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-25-2009, 02:38 PM
Bob Cox
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 01:18:00 +1300, Chris Bannister (mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz) wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:40:39AM +0000, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +0000, Bob Cox wrote:
> > > > I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and
> > > > receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well
> > > > and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support
> > > > available on this list.
> > >
> > > The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding.
> > >
> > > As more people go from Windoze --> Ubuntu --> Debian, it becomes more
> > > important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line
> > > help desk.
> >
> > You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP.
>
> Huh?
>
> See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/01/msg02168.html
>
> But please, It was not meant as a character assassination.
>
> > If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a
> > specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with
> > Exim will comment.
>
> The clause "as it's the Debian default it really should have more
> support available on this list."
>
> http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=209844
> and
> http://pkg-exim4.alioth.debian.org/README/README.Debian.html#id226635
> respectively.
>
> Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it
> should have *more* "support" than, say, postfix or any other MTA.
>
> Hope this explains.

Oh dear. I apologise for my sloppy grammar. When I said "as it's the
Debian default it really should have more support available on this
list", I did *not* mean that it "ought have more support" - I meant
that I assumed there *would* be more support available - simply because
of its greater number of users.

--
Bob Cox. Stoke Gifford, near Bristol, UK.
Please reply to the list only. Do NOT send copies directly to me.
Debian on the NSLU2: http://bobcox.com/slug/


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-25-2009, 05:56 PM
"S. Fishpaste"
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:01:28 -0600, Nate Bargmann in gmane.linux.debian.user wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the level of support enjoyed by a particular
> package is dependent on the experience of its users (a package with low
> installation numbers and rank may have highly experienced and
> knowledgable users) and the chance that such users subscribe to and
> read this list. In other words, it's a craps shoot.

I'm as guilty as the next person in NOT searching the archives and/or the Debian
Wiki; http://wiki.debian.org/PkgExim4 when needing help. I've been getting
better though and find that the combos of this list, the Debian Wiki and
Google (to search this list) that there is excellent support available.
Often better than what I've seen from commercial vendors.

I've never had any problem getting all the help I needed when setting up
Exim in the past from this list. Doesn't sound like you checked the archives ?



--
Regards,
S. Fishpaste


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-25-2009, 11:40 PM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

* S. Fishpaste <SDA@Deer-in-the-headlights.ca.invalid> [2009 Jan 25 13:10 -0600]:

> I've never had any problem getting all the help I needed when setting up
> Exim in the past from this list. Doesn't sound like you checked the archives ?

I tried several search terms in Google and it's obvious that not many
have configured Exim4 for GoDaddy's server. Some have but never
completed their thread by posting what exactly they had to do to get it
working. So, I have posted my configuration back on here so it will be
in the archive.

Fortunately, the Web is littered with solutions to most configuration
issues, but this one seemed to me to be a bit more obscure. This is a
case where several seemingly unrelated configuration options combine
for a solution that isn't obvious to those of us who aren't mail
administrators. Thanks to the pointers from Osamu, I was able to get
up to speed quickly which is what this list is all about.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-27-2009, 01:20 PM
Chris Bannister
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 03:38:53PM +0000, Bob Cox wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 10:40:39AM +0000, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:43:28PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:43:07PM +0000, Bob Cox wrote:
> > > > > I have used Postfix for years (I have a static IP etc and send and
> > > > > receive direct-to-mx) but no doubt exim would do the job just as well
> > > > > and as it's the Debian default it really should have more support
> > > > > available on this list.
> > > >
> > > > The last clause of that sentence indicates a deep misunderstanding.
> > > >
> > > > As more people go from Windoze --> Ubuntu --> Debian, it becomes more
> > > > important to not nurture the idea that debian-user is *the* front line
> > > > help desk.
> > >
> > > You seem to confuse Bob Cox for the OP.
> >
> > Huh?
> >
> > See http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2009/01/msg02168.html
> >
> > But please, It was not meant as a character assassination.
> >
> > > If you read the context, you'll see that Bob actually pointed out a
> > > specific technical issue, and then hoped someone more exprinced with
> > > Exim will comment.
> >
> > The clause "as it's the Debian default it really should have more
> > support available on this list."
> >
> > http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
> > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=209844
> > and
> > http://pkg-exim4.alioth.debian.org/README/README.Debian.html#id226635
> > respectively.
> >
> > Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it
> > should have *more* "support" than, say, postfix or any other MTA.
> >
> > Hope this explains.
>
> Oh dear. I apologise for my sloppy grammar. When I said "as it's the
> Debian default it really should have more support available on this
> list", I did *not* mean that it "ought have more support" - I meant
> that I assumed there *would* be more support available - simply because
> of its greater number of users.

Yeah sorry, I didn't mean to be too specific like that. Also there is the
possibility that a lot of people may be using postfix who subscribe to
this list, IOW, there will be a lot of people using exim who don't
realise it and not even subscribed to this list.

AFAIK there seem to be more people ready to jump in with a helping hand
when the configuration issue concerns postfix than with exim although
I'm not sure whether that may be because people who install postfix have
to actually *choose* to install it whereas the people who use exim have
it installed by default and don't mecessarily need to mess around the
default possible configurations.

--
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-- Stephen F Roberts


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-31-2009, 11:58 AM
Jerry Stuckle
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

Nate Bargmann wrote:

* Chris Bannister <mockingbird@earthlight.co.nz> [2009 Jan 25 06:02 -0600]:


Also, just because Exim4 is the Debian default, why does that mean it
should have *more* "support" than, say, postfix or any other MTA.


Hold on a minute!

I'm not sure what caused this tempest in a teapot to occur, but suffice
it to say that since Exim4 is the *default* MTA I would expect more
experience with its configuration than with any of the other MTAs in
Debian. It's a raw numbers game and Exim4 should have more list
members available to offer support than the number 2 used MTA.

The fact that Exim4 doesn't get discussed much indicates that it must
work well enough out of the box for most users. Looking at the popcon
page, of those installations reporting, exim4-daemon-light is installed
by 68.10% of people and used by 65.03% of users. See:

http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=exim4

Now, it's quite possible that all Exim4 is doing on many of these
installations is simply handling daemon mail and the MUA of choice is
handling the smarthost duties. It's also quite possible that many
Debian users have a simple smarthost that doesn't require the special
configuration of GoDaddy's smarthost and this thread now exists to help
others, i.e. it will provide "support" in the future.

It's quite possible that the Postfix users may well be more
knowledgable per capita than the Exim4 users even though Postfix
appears to be the number 2 MTA used in Debian per:

http://popcon.debian.org/main/mail/by_inst

It seems to me that the level of support enjoyed by a particular
package is dependent on the experience of its users (a package with low
installation numbers and rank may have highly experienced and
knowledgable users) and the chance that such users subscribe to and
read this list. In other words, it's a craps shoot.

- Nate >>



A bit late, but I've been unavailable.

When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists -
just like I do any product.


I don't expect this to be a product support list.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-31-2009, 12:53 PM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

* Jerry Stuckle <jstuckle@attglobal.net> [2009 Jan 31 07:34 -0600]:

> A bit late, but I've been unavailable.
>
> When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists -
> just like I do any product.

In the README.Debian file it quite explicitly discusses that support
should be sought on the Debian list first and only afterward should the
upstream Exim list be consulted. This is likely due to the Debian
configuration changes that have been made to the package. Since I
wound up solving my configuration entirely within the framework of the
Debian configuration, asking on a Debian list was the proper avenue to
take, IMO.

For the record, I checked the Debian Exim4 mailing list and it appeared
to have very low traffic and since I am already subscribed here, I
asked here.

> I don't expect this to be a product support list.

There seems to be a lot of "product support" that takes place on this
list without issue. Why some got upset about this thread is puzzling
to me.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-31-2009, 06:13 PM
Jeff Chimene
 
Default What does support mean? ( Exim4 with a Goddady account)

On 12/23/42 12:59, Nate Bargmann wrote:

* Jerry Stuckle <jstuckle@attglobal.net> [2009 Jan 31 07:34 -0600]:



A bit late, but I've been unavailable.

When I need help configuring Exim, I look at the Exim mailing lists -
just like I do any product.



In the README.Debian file it quite explicitly discusses that support
should be sought on the Debian list first and only afterward should the
upstream Exim list be consulted. This is likely due to the Debian
configuration changes that have been made to the package. Since I
wound up solving my configuration entirely within the framework of the
Debian configuration, asking on a Debian list was the proper avenue to
take, IMO.

For the record, I checked the Debian Exim4 mailing list and it appeared
to have very low traffic and since I am already subscribed here, I
asked here.



I don't expect this to be a product support list.



There seems to be a lot of "product support" that takes place on this
list without issue. Why some got upset about this thread is puzzling
to me.

- Nate >>



Hi,



What was the solution?



I'm interested in getting Exim4 to talk to a smarthost provider. TBird
seems to have no problem, but Exim4 provokes an unexpected error.
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 03:49 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org