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Old 01-24-2009, 06:59 PM
Arthur Marsh
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

Marc Shapiro wrote, on 2009-01-25 04:50:
I posted this under the original thread, but since there were no
responses I figured that most readers had already determined that they
could not help with that problem and so did not read the post. Since
this is a totally different track to solving my problem I felt a new
subject was in order.


Florian Kulzer wrote:
> I would probably be tempted to buy an nvidia or ati card and dump the
> sis driver.

I don't think that I have actually purchased a video card separate from
the PC, or motherboard since my TRS-8- Model III died and I bought my
first PC compatible. That would have been about 26 years ago. Getting
a new board might not be that bad of an idea, but, as I have not
recently had to make such a purchase I have not looked into what is good,
bad, works with Linux, etc. I am not looking to spend a lot of money
and I don't need a fancy gamers board. I just need something that does
the job. I noticed that Fry's has several inexpensive EVGA boards,
specifically a 7200GS w/128MB or 256MB PCI-Express and an 8400GS w/512MB
for only $10.00 more. I don't mind the extra $10 for double to
quadruple the memory and a faster core, but is this a good board with
solid support? With rebates, these boards are going for $29.99 to
$39.99. Are there better boards that can be had for similar prices? Is
there a different line that I should look into? I don't want to start
any religious wars over what is the best graphics card. I just need a
solid card that works and doesn't have issues like the onboard Sis
chips seem to have.



I know the feeling, since a family member has an HP machine with an
on-board SiS graphics chip-set.


As I had an AGP motherboard, I used a second hand ATI Radeon 9200 SE
which works well with the Free "radeon" driver in package
xserver-xorg-video-radeon.


If considering an ATI graphics card you will probably want to find out
what chip-set the cards you are looking at use.


The "radeon" driver supports *some* ATI graphics cards using PCI
Express, others are supported in the Free "radeonhd" driver in package
xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd.


If you have these packages installed, look at the manual pages for
"radeon" and "radeonhd" and web pages:


http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeon
http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeonhd
http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

to find what chip-sets and features are supported.

Arthur.


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Old 01-24-2009, 07:28 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

On 01/24/2009 12:20 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote:
I posted this under the original thread, but since there were no
responses I figured that most readers had already determined that they
could not help with that problem and so did not read the post. Since
this is a totally different track to solving my problem I felt a new
subject was in order.


Florian Kulzer wrote:
> I would probably be tempted to buy an nvidia or ati card and dump the
> sis driver.

I don't think that I have actually purchased a video card separate from
the PC, or motherboard since my TRS-8- Model III died and I bought my
first PC compatible. That would have been about 26 years ago. Getting
a new board might not be that bad of an idea, but, as I have not
recently had to make such a purchase I have not looked into what is good,
bad, works with Linux, etc. I am not looking to spend a lot of money
and I don't need a fancy gamers board. I just need something that does
the job. I noticed that Fry's has several inexpensive EVGA boards,
specifically a 7200GS w/128MB or 256MB PCI-Express and an 8400GS w/512MB


I'd go with the 7200GS, because (a) I know it works well, and (b)
nvidia played games with some of the 8400 naming conventions. IOW,
some weren't as fast as the 7xxx cards.


Also, it's more likely that you can get passively-cooled 7xxx cards.


for only $10.00 more. I don't mind the extra $10 for double to
quadruple the memory and a faster core, but is this a good board with
solid support? With rebates, these boards are going for $29.99 to
$39.99. Are there better boards that can be had for similar prices? Is
there a different line that I should look into? I don't want to start
any religious wars over what is the best graphics card. I just need a
solid card that works and doesn't have issues like the onboard Sis
chips seem to have.




--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers."


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Old 01-24-2009, 07:58 PM
Marc Shapiro
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

Ron Johnson wrote:

On 01/24/2009 12:20 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote:

I don't think that I have actually purchased a video card separate from
the PC, or motherboard since my TRS-8- Model III died and I bought my
first PC compatible. That would have been about 26 years ago. Getting
a new board might not be that bad of an idea, but, as I have not
recently had to make such a purchase I have not looked into what is
good,

bad, works with Linux, etc. I am not looking to spend a lot of money
and I don't need a fancy gamers board. I just need something that does
the job. I noticed that Fry's has several inexpensive EVGA boards,
specifically a 7200GS w/128MB or 256MB PCI-Express and an 8400GS w/512MB


I'd go with the 7200GS, because (a) I know it works well, and (b)
nvidia played games with some of the 8400 naming conventions. IOW,
some weren't as fast as the 7xxx cards.


Also, it's more likely that you can get passively-cooled 7xxx cards.

The specs for the cards, as posted on the Fry's site are:

* Interface: PCI Express x16
* Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
* GPU: GeForce 7200GS
* Core clock: 350MHz
* Memory Clock: 666MHz
* Memory Size: 256MB GDDR2
* Memory Interface: 64-bit
* 3D: API
* DirectX: DirectX 9
* OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
* Ports: D-SUB, DVI, TV-Out, S-Video Out
* RAMDAC: 400 MHz
* Max Resolution: 2048 x 1536
* SLI Supported: No
* Cooler: With Fan

and

* Interface: PCI Express x16
* GPU: GeForce 8400GS
* Core clock: 459MHz
* Memory Clock: 800MHz
* Memory Size: 512MB
* Memory Interface: 64-bit
* Memory Type: GDDR2
* DirectX: DirectX 10
* OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
* Ports: 1 x D-SUB, 1 x DVI, TV-Out HDTV, S-Video
* RAMDAC: 400 MHz
* Max Resolution: 2048 x 1536
* RoHS Compliant: Yes
* HDCP Ready: Yes

so the 8400GS would seem to have a higher core clock and memory clock,
as well as twice the memory. Are you saying that even with the higher
specs that it may not run as fast, or that some 8400s actually did not
have the higher specs?


--
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com




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Old 01-24-2009, 08:18 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

On 01/24/2009 02:58 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote:

Ron Johnson wrote:

On 01/24/2009 12:20 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote:

I don't think that I have actually purchased a video card separate from
the PC, or motherboard since my TRS-8- Model III died and I bought my
first PC compatible. That would have been about 26 years ago. Getting
a new board might not be that bad of an idea, but, as I have not
recently had to make such a purchase I have not looked into what is
good,

bad, works with Linux, etc. I am not looking to spend a lot of money
and I don't need a fancy gamers board. I just need something that does
the job. I noticed that Fry's has several inexpensive EVGA boards,
specifically a 7200GS w/128MB or 256MB PCI-Express and an 8400GS w/512MB


I'd go with the 7200GS, because (a) I know it works well, and (b)
nvidia played games with some of the 8400 naming conventions. IOW,
some weren't as fast as the 7xxx cards.


Also, it's more likely that you can get passively-cooled 7xxx cards.

The specs for the cards, as posted on the Fry's site are:

* Interface: PCI Express x16
* Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
* GPU: GeForce 7200GS
* Core clock: 350MHz
* Memory Clock: 666MHz
* Memory Size: 256MB GDDR2
* Memory Interface: 64-bit
* 3D: API
* DirectX: DirectX 9
* OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
* Ports: D-SUB, DVI, TV-Out, S-Video Out
* RAMDAC: 400 MHz
* Max Resolution: 2048 x 1536
* SLI Supported: No
* Cooler: With Fan


IMNSHO, unless this is a *workstation* where you do lots of OpenGL
visualization, or you are dual-booting to play Crysis, Linux users
just don't *need* uber-video performance.


Thus, I go for good-enough-but-silent over raw power which is
overkill 99.999% of the time (especially if you use the nvidia driver).


Thus, I bough a card very similar to one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+130552054 8+1069609641+106790717+1295318921&Configurator=&Su bcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&SpeTabStoreType=&sr chInDesc=


and

* Interface: PCI Express x16
* GPU: GeForce 8400GS
* Core clock: 459MHz
* Memory Clock: 800MHz
* Memory Size: 512MB
* Memory Interface: 64-bit
* Memory Type: GDDR2
* DirectX: DirectX 10
* OpenGL: OpenGL 2.0
* Ports: 1 x D-SUB, 1 x DVI, TV-Out HDTV, S-Video
* RAMDAC: 400 MHz
* Max Resolution: 2048 x 1536
* RoHS Compliant: Yes
* HDCP Ready: Yes

so the 8400GS would seem to have a higher core clock and memory clock,
as well as twice the memory. Are you saying that even with the higher
specs that it may not run as fast,


Or, it might!

or that some 8400s actually did not
have the higher specs?


Yes.

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers."


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Old 01-24-2009, 10:07 PM
Marc Shapiro
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

Ron Johnson wrote:


IMNSHO, unless this is a *workstation* where you do lots of OpenGL
visualization, or you are dual-booting to play Crysis, Linux users
just don't *need* uber-video performance.


Thus, I go for good-enough-but-silent over raw power which is overkill
99.999% of the time (especially if you use the nvidia driver).

So, the 8400 has a fan for cooling and the 7200 is passively cooled?

--
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com




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Old 01-24-2009, 11:39 PM
Micha Feigin
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 06:29:56 +1030
Arthur Marsh <arthur.marsh@internode.on.net> wrote:

> Marc Shapiro wrote, on 2009-01-25 04:50:
> > I posted this under the original thread, but since there were no
> > responses I figured that most readers had already determined that they
> > could not help with that problem and so did not read the post. Since
> > this is a totally different track to solving my problem I felt a new
> > subject was in order.
> >
> > Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > > I would probably be tempted to buy an nvidia or ati card and dump the
> > > sis driver.
> >
> > I don't think that I have actually purchased a video card separate from
> > the PC, or motherboard since my TRS-8- Model III died and I bought my
> > first PC compatible. That would have been about 26 years ago. Getting
> > a new board might not be that bad of an idea, but, as I have not
> > recently had to make such a purchase I have not looked into what is good,
> > bad, works with Linux, etc. I am not looking to spend a lot of money
> > and I don't need a fancy gamers board. I just need something that does
> > the job. I noticed that Fry's has several inexpensive EVGA boards,
> > specifically a 7200GS w/128MB or 256MB PCI-Express and an 8400GS w/512MB
> > for only $10.00 more. I don't mind the extra $10 for double to
> > quadruple the memory and a faster core, but is this a good board with
> > solid support? With rebates, these boards are going for $29.99 to
> > $39.99. Are there better boards that can be had for similar prices? Is
> > there a different line that I should look into? I don't want to start
> > any religious wars over what is the best graphics card. I just need a
> > solid card that works and doesn't have issues like the onboard Sis
> > chips seem to have.
> >
>

My personal experience is that intel, ati and nvidia one or two generations
back all work ok with the free drivers, none provide real 3d performance.

As far as I know ati drivers are open but problematic. Nvidia's are closed but
work pretty well.

intel cards are pretty mediocre (especially the x3100 that comes on a lot of
cheap laptops these days).

It's worth buying a standalone card as it uses it's own memory and not shared
memory. Personally I would go with nvidia and the proprietary drivers (if you
don't mind non-free).

> I know the feeling, since a family member has an HP machine with an
> on-board SiS graphics chip-set.
>
> As I had an AGP motherboard, I used a second hand ATI Radeon 9200 SE
> which works well with the Free "radeon" driver in package
> xserver-xorg-video-radeon.
>
> If considering an ATI graphics card you will probably want to find out
> what chip-set the cards you are looking at use.
>
> The "radeon" driver supports *some* ATI graphics cards using PCI
> Express, others are supported in the Free "radeonhd" driver in package
> xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd.
>
> If you have these packages installed, look at the manual pages for
> "radeon" and "radeonhd" and web pages:
>
> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeon
> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeonhd
> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature
>
> to find what chip-sets and features are supported.
>
> Arthur.
>
>


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Old 01-25-2009, 02:30 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Vidio card recommendation needed (was: Can't start X after upgrade to Lenny)

On 01/24/2009 05:07 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote:

Ron Johnson wrote:


IMNSHO, unless this is a *workstation* where you do lots of OpenGL
visualization, or you are dual-booting to play Crysis, Linux users
just don't *need* uber-video performance.


Thus, I go for good-enough-but-silent over raw power which is overkill
99.999% of the time (especially if you use the nvidia driver).

>

So, the 8400 has a fan for cooling and the 7200 is passively cooled?


As you mentioned in your earlier email, some 7200s *are* actively
cooled. And this link shows that some 8xxx cards are passively cooled.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+130552054 8+1069609641+1295318921+106791921&Configurator=&Su bcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&SpeTabStoreType=&sr chInDesc=

So, it's dependent on what the manufacturer wants to do with that
particular card.


NOTE!!!! Maybe I was wrong about the 8400GS.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_vdpau_gpu&num=1

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

"I am not surprised, for we live long and are celebrated poopers."


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