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Old 01-05-2009, 10:50 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On Monday 2009 January 05 17:27:44 Ken Teague wrote:
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > See, I just think you guys should stop using bad clients. Kmail
> > replies to the list (and only to the list) by default. (Which, actually,
> > appears to be a violation on the relevant standards. :P)
>
> Is Kmail available for Win32? I'm at work on my laptop and don't have
> the luxury of Linux all day.

I don't really know. I haven't been following KDE development since they
decided to release 4.0 without the ABI compatibility guarantees I was
expecting. That said, I think KDE 4 (and in particular Kmail) is available
for Win32.

I wasn't completely serious though. Kmail has it's own standards violations
and misc. problems. It's possible that finding a "good MUA" is like finding
a flying unicorn, not possible.

> I also stated in my previous post that the reply-to field was missing
> from the SMTP header. I can manually add it from my MUA (as I did with
> this mailing) but must I need to for each and every message I reply to
> on this mailing list? Is it the MUA that's broken?... or the mailing list?

Changing the Reply-To header is dangerous and definitely against standards.
Automated software adding a Reply-To header is arguably against standards and
arguably dangerous.[1] I'm not sure about Mail-Followup-To, but I suspect
it's in the same boat. The standard header for information about where to
send mail directed at the list is List-Post, which is added by the Debian
mailing list software.[2]

A good MUA should provide a "Reply to List" feature that uses the information
in the List-Post header. It is more pleasant than any method involving
manually specifying or editing the To/CC/BCC addresses.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

[1] That doesn't prevent other mailing lists and list software from doing it,
but it is bad practice. It's arguably dangerous because it does more damage
to accidentally send a private message to a public list (It can't be
un-sent.) than to send a list message to a private address (It can be
forwarded or resent to the proper address.)

[2] For good or ill, this isn't a "plain" address field, so it is a bit harder
for MUA authors to support than Reply-To etc.
 
Old 01-05-2009, 10:58 PM
Celejar
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:27:44 -0800
Ken Teague <kteague@pobox.com> wrote:

> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > See, I just think you guys should stop using bad clients. Kmail replies
> > to the list (and only to the list) by default. (Which, actually, appears to
> > be a violation on the relevant standards. :P)
>
> Is Kmail available for Win32? I'm at work on my laptop and don't have
> the luxury of Linux all day.

I'm a Sylpheed fanboy; it has a built in Reply-to-list function. I've
never used Sylph on Windows, but when I used to follow its mailing
list, it seemed that its Windows support was quite good.

> - Ken

Celejar
--
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ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator


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Old 01-05-2009, 11:13 PM
hose
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On Jan 5, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Celejar wrote:


On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:27:44 -0800
Ken Teague <kteague@pobox.com> wrote:


Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
See, I just think you guys should stop using bad clients.
Kmail replies
to the list (and only to the list) by default. (Which, actually,
appears to

be a violation on the relevant standards. :P)


Is Kmail available for Win32? I'm at work on my laptop and don't
have

the luxury of Linux all day.


I'm a Sylpheed fanboy; it has a built in Reply-to-list function. I've
never used Sylph on Windows, but when I used to follow its mailing
list, it seemed that its Windows support was quite good.


- Ken


Celejar


Just use the least sucky client out there (mutt). It has sane reply,
reply-to, and reply-to-list commands, is extremely fast, and can bend
to your will if needed, no matter how wrong you are. It's the vim of
the email world.


hose


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Old 01-06-2009, 01:33 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On Monday 05 January 2009, hose <subscriptions@bluemaggottowel.com> wrote
about 'Re: [OT] mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to,
reply':
>On Jan 5, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Celejar wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:27:44 -0800
>> Ken Teague <kteague@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>>>> See, I just think you guys should stop using bad clients.
>Just use the least sucky client out there (mutt). It has sane reply,
>reply-to, and reply-to-list commands, is extremely fast, and can bend
>to your will if needed, no matter how wrong you are. It's the vim of
>the email world.

Does it work outside of a terminal, yet? Seriously though, mutt *is* a
very high-quality MUA. Even if you normally prefer X applications, mutt
is worth a look.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 01-06-2009, 01:42 AM
Celejar
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:33:09 -0600
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." <bss@iguanasuicide.net> wrote:

...

> Does it work outside of a terminal, yet? Seriously though, mutt *is* a
> very high-quality MUA. Even if you normally prefer X applications, mutt
> is worth a look.

Although I have only dabbled with Mutt, from the little experience that
I have, and from what I've read here and elsewhere, I would certainly
agree. But I'll also note that Sylph is also certainly a very
high-quality MUA, and worth a look by anyone interested in a relatively
lightweight, actively maintained (Hiro the dev reads and participates
in the ML), standards-compliant GUI MUA. I'm no expert, but I know of
no long-standing, serious bugs or standards non-compliance with Sylph.

> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.

Celejar
--
mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email
ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator


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Old 01-06-2009, 02:43 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On 01/05/09 17:27, Ken Teague wrote:

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
See, I just think you guys should stop using bad clients. Kmail replies
to the list (and only to the list) by default. (Which, actually, appears to
be a violation on the relevant standards. :P)


Is Kmail available for Win32? I'm at work on my laptop and don't have
the luxury of Linux all day.

I also stated in my previous post that the reply-to field was missing
from the SMTP header. I can manually add it from my MUA (as I did with
this mailing) but must I need to for each and every message I reply to
on this mailing list? Is it the MUA that's broken?... or the mailing list?


Install the Reply To List add-on, v0.2.1 or v0.3.0, depending on
whether you access IMAP or not. Works perfectly.


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

I like my women like I like my coffee - purchased at above-market
rates from eco-friendly organic farming cooperatives in Latin America.


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Old 01-06-2009, 07:46 AM
Steve Lamb
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

Ron Johnson wrote:
> Install the Reply To List add-on, v0.2.1 or v0.3.0, depending on whether
> you access IMAP or not. Works perfectly.

For you... Still not working here. :P
 
Old 01-06-2009, 07:54 AM
Steve Lamb
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

Ken Teague wrote:
> Is Kmail available for Win32? I'm at work on my laptop and don't have
> the luxury of Linux all day.

http://windows.kde.org/

> I also stated in my previous post that the reply-to field was missing
> from the SMTP header. I can manually add it from my MUA (as I did with
> this mailing) but must I need to for each and every message I reply to
> on this mailing list? Is it the MUA that's broken?... or the mailing list?

MUA, since RFC2369 reply-to pointing back to the list (which became
invalid in RFC2822) is no longer needed.
 
Old 01-06-2009, 08:02 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

On 01/06/09 02:46, Steve Lamb wrote:

Ron Johnson wrote:

Install the Reply To List add-on, v0.2.1 or v0.3.0, depending on whether
you access IMAP or not. Works perfectly.


For you... Still not working here. :P


You've got to be doing something wrong...

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

I like my women like I like my coffee - purchased at above-market
rates from eco-friendly organic farming cooperatives in Latin America.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
 
Old 01-06-2009, 08:05 AM
Steve Lamb
 
Default mailing lists versus usenet / reply to list, reply-to, reply

(Apologies to Boyd, been a while since I replied to D-U, got out of the habit
of reply-to-all and trim.

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> See, I just think you guys should stop using bad clients. Kmail replies
> to the list (and only to the list) by default. (Which, actually, appears to
> be a violation on the relevant standards. :P)

Of course KMail has other warts. Like one of the most inefficient IMAP
implementations. Even worse than mutt's.
 

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