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Paul Cartwright 01-04-2009 11:37 AM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
On Sat January 3 2009, Chris Bannister wrote:
> Have you changed/upgraded any hardware, in particular, added any HDs?
> Does /var/log/syslog show anything interesting?
> Does it work from the command-line, using videotrans or tovid or ...?

ok, I'm not sure if it was the addition of the new cdrecord that I installed,
but this just worked:
$ makedvd -burn -speed 2

so it will now burn again at 2X. I'm almost positive that i tried 2X before...
I'm tired of making coasters, so for now, I can live with that. It's not like
I burn DVDs every day...
I'm just glad to get it working. I'll try K3B at 2X maybe later..

--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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Chris Bannister 01-05-2009 09:29 AM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 07:37:56AM -0500, Paul Cartwright wrote:
> On Sat January 3 2009, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > Have you changed/upgraded any hardware, in particular, added any HDs?
> > Does /var/log/syslog show anything interesting?
> > Does it work from the command-line, using videotrans or tovid or ...?
>
> ok, I'm not sure if it was the addition of the new cdrecord that I installed,
> but this just worked:
> $ makedvd -burn -speed 2

Are you sure it it using the "new cdrecord"?

> so it will now burn again at 2X. I'm almost positive that i tried 2X before...
> I'm tired of making coasters, so for now, I can live with that. It's not like
> I burn DVDs every day...
> I'm just glad to get it working. I'll try K3B at 2X maybe later..

I know what you mean about coasters! It is a pain to debug probs like
this.

Presumably you would have had the same problem trying to burn an audio
CD, although, DVD burning is disk-at-once whereas CD burning is
track-at-once and thence may help to determine the cause.

It would be a shame if wodim wasn't "doing its job for Debian Users."

--
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-- Stephen F Roberts


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Paul Cartwright 01-05-2009 03:11 PM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
On Mon January 5 2009, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > ok, I'm not sure if it was the addition of the new cdrecord that I
> > installed, but this just worked:
> > $ makedvd -burn -speed 2
>
> Are you sure it it using the "new cdrecord"?
no, how would I know? the man page doesn't show any options for cdrcord vs
wodim..

> *
>
> > so it will now burn again at 2X. I'm almost positive that i tried 2X
> > before... I'm tired of making coasters, so for now, I can live with that.
> > It's not like I burn DVDs every day...
> > I'm just glad to get it working. I'll try K3B at 2X maybe later..
>
> I know what you mean about coasters! It is a pain to debug probs like
> this.
I wouldn't mind, if it actually fixed the problem..
I birned another coaster using makedvd this morning, even though I
specified -speed 2, it burned at 4x and made me a coaster. Nero Linux burned
at 4x and made me a video DVD..
24 days of Nero left to solve this, or I have to buy Nero..

>
> Presumably you would have had the same problem trying to burn an audio
> CD, although, DVD burning is disk-at-once whereas CD burning is
> track-at-once and thence may help to determine the cause.
>
THAT was a question I was going to ask! I knew there was an option for track
at once, but the DVD burning option is greyed out..
my only choice is DAO, so now it seems that is correct, and the only option.

> It would be a shame if wodim wasn't "doing its job for Debian Users."
>
yeah..


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01-06-2009 09:22 AM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
Chris Bannister wrote:

>Are you sure it it using the "new cdrecord"?

What do you understand by "new cdrecord"?


wodim has been created from a very old version of cdrecord
by adding new bugs and by changing things in a way that
makes wodim be in conflict with the GPL and the Copyright law.

The mature DVD support from cdrecord (introduced February 1998) has been
replaced by half baken code in wodim without reason. As a result DVD
support in wodim not really existent.

The clean and generic SCSI low level support (in libscg) has been
modified, resulting in a low tolerance on Linux kernel modifications
like e.g. introducing libsata.

Tests for missing root privileges, done early in the original cdrecord code
have been removed resulting in code that looks as if it could work without
root privileges, but this just lets wodim fail later with unclear reasons.

There are no real bug fixes and there is no development in wodim.
Wodim still has more bugs than the original cdrecord it was based on.
Since May 2007, the initiator of the fork did not work on a single
change but rather advertizes for the closed source software "nerolinux".

...

>It would be a shame if wodim wasn't "doing its job for Debian Users."

"would" seems to be an inapropriate word in this relation. It _is_ a shame that
Debian does not come with the bug-free original software but with a replacement
that causes many problems for the Debian Users.


Paul Cartwright wrote:

>no, how would I know? the man page doesn't show any options for cdrcord vs
>wodim..

The people behind wodim claim that there are no differences and for this reason,
they don't document.

If you compare the very old source, wodim was based on with a current cdrtools
source, you will find that nearly 50% of the code has been replaced or added
during the past three years. There are many new features in the original
software and there is a lot more tolerance against firmware bugs in drives.

I recommand to have a look at the latest release (2.01.01a55) in

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

make sure to be root when calling make install, to allow cdrecord to be
installed suid root as needed on Linux.

Jörg

--
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js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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Paul Cartwright 01-06-2009 11:17 AM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
On Tue January 6 2009, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >Are you sure it it using the "new cdrecord"?
>
> What do you understand by "new cdrecord"?
>
I don't think I knew all of that, thanks for the background. Why do people
always have to mess with something that is working!!

>
> I recommand to have a look at the latest release (2.01.01a55) in
>
> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/
>
> make sure to be root when calling make install, to allow cdrecord to be
> installed suid root as needed on Linux.

I have a48
ftp.berlios.de has been a peoblem for me to connect to, even in passive mode,
it is timing out..

--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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01-06-2009 01:23 PM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
Please keep me on the CC!


Paul Cartwright wrote:

>> I recommand to have a look at the latest release (2.01.01a55) in

>> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

>> make sure to be root when calling make install, to allow cdrecord to be
>> installed suid root as needed on Linux.

>I have a48
>ftp.berlios.de has been a peoblem for me to connect to, even in passive mode,
>it is timing out..

We had a server outage last weekend. If you still have problems, ask your
ISP for help, thousands of people are using ftp.berlios.de without any problem.

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." 01-06-2009 04:39 PM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
On Tuesday 2009 January 06 06:17:49 Paul Cartwright wrote:
> On Tue January 6 2009, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> > >Are you sure it it using the "new cdrecord"?
> >
> > What do you understand by "new cdrecord"?
>
> I don't think I knew all of that, thanks for the background. Why do people
> always have to mess with something that is working!!

Joerg doesn't like wodim, because he doesn't really believe people should be
able to fork his code. (He is the primary developer of cdrecord.) His
assertion that wodim violates the GPL and Germany's "Author's Rights" (I
can't spell the original German word.) does not appear to be supported by
precident or even trained legal analysis of the specifics. I don't think
wodim can be reasonably held to hurt Joerg's reputation or integrity.
Providing symlinks from the old binary names to the new ones, and giving
similar output are, in fact, required for interoperability.

That said, wodim was forked from a "really old" version of cdrecord (the last
version that was clearly licensed under the GPL). Of course, browsing
Joerg's site shows you that cdrecord hasn't had a stable release in 4.5 years
and wodim had a stable release 2 months ago.

Wodim certainly had and has it's share of issues, but so has cdrecord. If
either (a) you don't intend to distribute cdrecord OR (b) you agree with
Joerg's interpretation of the GPL, I strongly encourage you to install
cdrecord from Joerg's site. If it works and wodim doesn't, there's clearly a
bug in wodim, and you should file one. IMO, Joerg interpretation is
incorrect as he assumes "source code" (which is a defined phrase in the GPL)
means something other than what it is defined to mean.

IANADD, but I read the archives:
debian-legal also doesn't agree with Joerg's interpretation of the GPL and
is "in the business" of distributing software. They feel that distributing
binaries of cdrecord produced from the source after the fork is not allowed
by copyright law, and would expose Debian to legal action. However, they
would like to continue providing cdburning software to Debian users. Since
Debian could not convince Joerg to change the licensing to something they
felt they could distribute, they had to begin a project to make cdburning
software, which brought us wodim.

Personally, I use wodim and will continue to use it, because I don't doubt
it's status as free software. I have some doubt that cdrecord is free
software; I don't doubt Joerg intends it to be free software, but I think his
particular love of the CDDL causes problems.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/

Paul Cartwright 01-06-2009 04:55 PM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
On Tue January 6 2009, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> Wodim certainly had and has it's share of issues, but so has cdrecord. *If
> either (a) you don't intend to distribute cdrecord OR (b) you agree with
> Joerg's interpretation of the GPL, I strongly encourage you to install
> cdrecord from Joerg's site. *If it works and wodim doesn't, there's clearly
> a bug in wodim, and you should file one. *IMO, Joerg interpretation is
> incorrect as he assumes "source code" (which is a defined phrase in the
> GPL) means something other than what it is defined to mean.

I seem to have issues getting files from his site.. even using --passive-ftp
fails.. I'll keep trying..
I guess my question is, what is NeroLinux using THAT WORKS, that K3B ISN'T..
I hate to use Nerolinux !

--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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01-06-2009 05:38 PM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
Paul Cartwright <ale@pcartwright.com> wrote:

> > We had a server outage last weekend. If you still have problems, ask your
> > ISP for help, thousands of people are using ftp.berlios.de without any
> > problem.
> >
> > Jörg
>
> I am having problems getting to this site and downloading updates:
>
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/cdrecord/?branch_id=1139&release_id=287422
>
> when I try to download the file:
> http://freshmeat.net/redir/cdrecord/1139/url_tgz/cdrtools-2.01.01a55.tar.gz
> I get timeouts.
> is it my setup, or are you guys blocking belios.de sites via ftp?
> I can get to the site, but can't download the files.

We are blocking only IP addresses for some time if an IP address was used to
run a denial of service attack against on of our servers.

If you can go to our sites, I am asuming that you get a directory listing.
So you seem to have a local problem at your side. Ftp uses _two_ port
numbers and the usual problem is that the firewall at your side blocks
the second port number. This usually can be circumvented by using passive
FTP mode.

As a general hint: do not run more than 3 downloads at the same time.

I recommend you to ask your local sysadmin or your ISP for help.

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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01-07-2009 03:23 PM

k3b & brasero don't work, nerolinux does- works ar 2X
 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>Joerg doesn't like wodim, because he doesn't really believe people should be
>able to fork his code. (He is the primary developer of cdrecord.) His

This is wrong. The problem with wodim is that it is not a real fork.
A fork is something that is supported, but wodim is unsupported.
This pseudo fork has been initiated by a person that soon stopped working on
the "fork" and then started to advertize for Nerolinux. Please explain
me the background for this kind of habbit!


>assertion that wodim violates the GPL and Germany's "Author's Rights" (I
>can't spell the original German word.) does not appear to be supported by
>precident or even trained legal analysis of the specifics. I don't think
>wodim can be reasonably held to hurt Joerg's reputation or integrity.

Wodim is in conflict with both GPL and Urheberrecht (*).

*) http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/index.html

Wodim (cdrkit) cannot be legally distributed

>Providing symlinks from the old binary names to the new ones, and giving
>similar output are, in fact, required for interoperability.

The problem is that many people still believe that they have a real cdrecord
when they call "cdrecord" and this is not true.

These people then are confused when features that have been introduced three
years ago are missing in their (expected to be recent) "version" of cdrecord.


>That said, wodim was forked from a "really old" version of cdrecord (the last
>version that was clearly licensed under the GPL). Of course, browsing
>Joerg's site shows you that cdrecord hasn't had a stable release in 4.5 years
>and wodim had a stable release 2 months ago.

Cdrtools (the original) had 55 releases in the last 100 months. Wodim had
7 releases in the same period of time and there are still more bug inside
than the source they are based on.


>Wodim certainly had and has it's share of issues, but so has cdrecord. If

This is a funny claim. Please tell me about a single problem with cdrecord.

>either (a) you don't intend to distribute cdrecord OR (b) you agree with
>Joerg's interpretation of the GPL, I strongly encourage you to install
>cdrecord from Joerg's site. If it works and wodim doesn't, there's clearly a
>bug in wodim, and you should file one. IMO, Joerg interpretation is
>incorrect as he assumes "source code" (which is a defined phrase in the GPL)
>means something other than what it is defined to mean.

I am not sure about your intention here. If you care about legallity, you cannot
use wodim, so what is your point?

But if you are talking about bugs, guess from where I know about the long list
of bugs in wodim? I did just read the bugtracking systems of the Linux
distributors that publish wodim. There are dozens of bugs that are documented
since more than two years and there is little hope that they will ever be fixed.

On the other side, the typical time to fix a bug in the original software is
1-2 weeks. For the same reason, there are no known issued with the original
software.

>IANADD, but I read the archives:
>debian-legal also doesn't agree with Joerg's interpretation of the GPL and
>is "in the business" of distributing software. They feel that distributing
>binaries of cdrecord produced from the source after the fork is not allowed
>by copyright law, and would expose Debian to legal action. However, they
>would like to continue providing cdburning software to Debian users. Since
>Debian could not convince Joerg to change the licensing to something they
>felt they could distribute, they had to begin a project to make cdburning
>software, which brought us wodim.

Debian legal is a discussion board of laymen, I gave up having a useful
discussion with them. On the other side, Debian introduced problems with
GPL and Urheberrecht in the fork so wodim/cdrkit cannot be legally distributed
(see above).

>Personally, I use wodim and will continue to use it, because I don't doubt
>it's status as free software. I have some doubt that cdrecord is free
>software; I don't doubt Joerg intends it to be free software, but I think his
>particular love of the CDDL causes problems.

The original software is of course free software. It seems that you are in doubt
because you listen to the wrong people ;-)

Jörg

--
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js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily


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