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Old 12-15-2008, 11:13 PM
"H.S."
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

David Jardine wrote:

>> To avoid the chaos that would ensue (for how long? some days, weeks?),
>> would it be wise to replace 'testing' with 'lenny' in sources.list file,
>> at least till the noise after the release has settled down in Testing?
>
> You could stick with 'testing' and delay upgrading for a while,

Yup, that is what I had originally in mind.

> although you'd miss any security fixes in lenny for that period.
> You also need to consider whether you prefer daily medium-sized
> upgrades or one massive one, where a problem might be more
> difficult to isolate.

Well, I was hoping that the new problems would be fixed in a few weeks
time after they arise. So I was imagining I could skip them if I stay
with Lenny during that while or not upgrade at all.

Though upgrading daily has its own advantages, as you alluded.

->HS


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Old 12-18-2008, 04:09 AM
Paul E Condon
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:24:43AM -0800, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
> I am currently running Lenny on two laptops. I thought i had seen something on this list about how, with Lenny close to release, the "lenny" repositories are different from "testing", and if we want to keep up to date we should switch to "testing" in sources.list. But the docs say that lenny is just a symlink to "testing".
>
> Im not trying to be ultra-bleeding-edge, but im willing to trade some stability for newer packages. I thought thats what i was doing with "lenny". Should i switch to "testing" in sources.list, or am i confused?
>
> Jen
>

Just in case you are still a little confused, here is my position. I'm
a user, not a developer. I like software that works. That's why I use
Debian. I've been through several transitions to a new release. This
minimizes your surprises. I use these six steps in a continuing cycle,
once through the cycle for each new release. You are now ready to
'execute' step 6.

1) Subscribe to this list so you can keep track of the ebb and flow of
Debian. (Probably you already do this.)

2) The cycle begins with you running the stable version, but refer to
it by its code name in your sources.list -- potato, sarge, etch,
whatever. Upgrade from time to time to pick up bug fixes.

3) When you start noticing complaints on this list that stable has old
outdated software that is way behind some other distribution, that is
much more up to date, consider making a dist-upgrade to testing, but
use the code name, not the word testing in sources.list. Maybe delay
doing this until you see complaints about oldness that specifically
mention features that sound interesting for software that you use.

4) If there are sprinkled in among these oldness complaints, other
complaints about e.g. X-windows being broken in testing, of course
stick with stable.

5) When you can set aside time to fiddle with new software for a
while, make the transition (dist-upgrade) to testing (using the code
name). (Even if the dist-upgrade is absolutely smooth and uneventful,
you will want to spend some time playing with the new features. And
there is a possibility that you will mess up something and take a
while to recover.)

6) When the next release happens, nothing happens for you. You are
already dist-upgraded to the new release. You already have the right
words in you sources.list. You get to work on whatever you were planning
to work on that day.

Some time after the release of Lenny, the name of the next release
after Lenny will become useful as a synonym of testing. Your first use
of steps 1-5 will be in the transition to that release from Lenny.

Hope this helps.
--
Paul E Condon
pecondon@mesanetworks.net


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Old 12-18-2008, 10:39 AM
Paul Cartwright
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On Thu December 18 2008, Paul E Condon wrote:
> Some time after the release of Lenny, the name of the next release
> after Lenny will become useful as a synonym of testing. Your first use
> of steps 1-5 will be in the transition to that release from Lenny.

just curious, do you know where kde4 lives in this equation?
right now I am running Lenny..

--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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Old 12-18-2008, 10:51 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On 2008-12-18 12:39 +0100, Paul Cartwright wrote:

> On Thu December 18 2008, Paul E Condon wrote:
>> Some time after the release of Lenny, the name of the next release
>> after Lenny will become useful as a synonym of testing. Your first use
>> of steps 1-5 will be in the transition to that release from Lenny.
>
> just curious, do you know where kde4 lives in this equation?
> right now I am running Lenny..

http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/11/27/faq-about-kde-42-in-debian/

Sven


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Old 12-18-2008, 11:09 AM
Paul Cartwright
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On Thu December 18 2008, Sven Joachim wrote:
> > just curious, do you know where kde4 lives in this equation?
> > right now I am running Lenny..
>
> http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/11/27/faq-about-kde-42-in-debian/

the critical information is in this line:

When will be KDE 4 uploaded to unstable? And to testing?
KDE 4 will replace KDE 3 in unstable when Lenny is released. After some time,
it will migrate from unstable to testing.

wait, that's unstable.. so when Lenny becomes STABLE, kde4 will be in TESTING,
is that it?

thanks!

--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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Old 12-18-2008, 11:26 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On 2008-12-18 13:09 +0100, Paul Cartwright wrote:

> the critical information is in this line:
>
> When will be KDE 4 uploaded to unstable? And to testing?
> KDE 4 will replace KDE 3 in unstable when Lenny is released. After some time,
> it will migrate from unstable to testing.
>
> wait, that's unstable.. so when Lenny becomes STABLE, kde4 will be in TESTING,
> is that it?

Some time after the upload to unstable, which can range between ten days
and several months. See http://www.debian.org/devel/testing for the
criteria that have to be met for transitions from unstable to testing.

Sven


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Old 12-18-2008, 09:00 PM
Eric Gerlach
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:09:29PM -0700, Paul E Condon wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:24:43AM -0800, Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
> 3) When you start noticing complaints on this list that stable has old
> outdated software that is way behind some other distribution, that is
> much more up to date, consider making a dist-upgrade to testing, but
> use the code name, not the word testing in sources.list. Maybe delay
> doing this until you see complaints about oldness that specifically
> mention features that sound interesting for software that you use.

On my personal boxes, I do this step when the green line drops below the blue
line on this graph:

http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/

I figure that if testing has fewer RC bugs than stable, it's probably okay for
me to use. I'm okay building a package from source if I need to fix a bug
though, so I have that advantage.

For my servers, I wait until the next release enters freeze, wait a month or
two, then start testing upgrades.

Cheers,

--
Eric Gerlach, Network Administrator
Federation of Students
University of Waterloo
p: (519) 888-4567 x36329
e: egerlach@feds.uwaterloo.ca


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Old 12-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Paul E Condon
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 06:39:25AM -0500, Paul Cartwright wrote:
> On Thu December 18 2008, Paul E Condon wrote:
> > Some time after the release of Lenny, the name of the next release
> > after Lenny will become useful as a synonym of testing. Your first use
> > of steps 1-5 will be in the transition to that release from Lenny.
>
> just curious, do you know where kde4 lives in this equation?
> right now I am running Lenny..
>

Sorry, no. I don't follow kde news and developments. My comments on
Xwindows give a clue as to how I might deal with it if it were a
problem for me: Watch for complaints in re. kde packages and act
with defensive intelligence.

This behavior does not contribute much to finding and fixing bugs.
But it also does not contribute noise to the bugreport system from
a user who really doesn't understand. ;-)

--
Paul E Condon
pecondon@mesanetworks.net


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Old 12-21-2008, 08:30 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

On Thursday 2008 December 18 05:39:25 Paul Cartwright wrote:
> On Thu December 18 2008, Paul E Condon wrote:
> > Some time after the release of Lenny, the name of the next release
> > after Lenny will become useful as a synonym of testing. Your first use
> > of steps 1-5 will be in the transition to that release from Lenny.
>
> just curious, do you know where kde4 lives in this equation?
> right now I am running Lenny..

From what I understand, KDE 4 will not be introduced to Lenny either now, or
during it's time as stable. I really have no idea whether bp.o will provide
KDE 4 packages for Lenny during it's time as stable.

Squeeze, the release after Lenny, will phase out KDE 3 in favor of KDE 4 as
packages come in from unstable. KDE 4 is currently only in experimental.

If you need any more details, you might ask on debian-kde, but running though
the archives for that list first would probably be good.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 12-22-2008, 12:49 PM
Adam Hardy
 
Default Difference between Lenny/testing?

Paul E Condon on 18/12/08 05:09, wrote:

1) Subscribe to this list so you can keep track of the ebb and flow of
Debian. (Probably you already do this.)

2) The cycle begins with you running the stable version, but refer to
it by its code name in your sources.list -- potato, sarge, etch,
whatever. Upgrade from time to time to pick up bug fixes.

3) When you start noticing complaints on this list that stable has old
outdated software that is way behind some other distribution, that is
much more up to date, consider making a dist-upgrade to testing, but
use the code name, not the word testing in sources.list. Maybe delay
doing this until you see complaints about oldness that specifically
mention features that sound interesting for software that you use.

4) If there are sprinkled in among these oldness complaints, other
complaints about e.g. X-windows being broken in testing, of course
stick with stable.

5) When you can set aside time to fiddle with new software for a
while, make the transition (dist-upgrade) to testing (using the code
name). (Even if the dist-upgrade is absolutely smooth and uneventful,
you will want to spend some time playing with the new features. And
there is a possibility that you will mess up something and take a
while to recover.)

6) When the next release happens, nothing happens for you. You are
already dist-upgraded to the new release. You already have the right
words in you sources.list. You get to work on whatever you were planning
to work on that day.


If you have the time or you are upgrading clients, you should have a list of
apps to test after the dist-upgrade. It's much easier to sort out a problem
straight after the dist-upgrade. If you happen to get a bug but by chance you
don't spot it for ages, you might find it alot more time-consuming to fix. (I did!)



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