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Old 12-10-2008, 11:30 PM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:52:03 lee wrote:
>But I'm wondering how many people have this problem. There are
>probably lots of people with SATA disks, and if most of them had this
>problem, it might have already heen solved. If lots of people have
>SATA disks but don't have this problem, I might get away with getting
>new disks. But maybe lots of people have it and just live with it?

Two WD Raptors connected via SATA to my Tyan motherboard in my desktop since
2005. No drops.

A varying number of Hitachi drives (both 500G and 1000G) connected via SATA to
my Areca PCI-X controller. No drops.

If you can find enough people with the same problems and co-ordinate, you
might be able to reduce the amount of effort each of you put forward. If
time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a
good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say
the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days?
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. * * * * * * * * * * ,= ,-_-. =.
bss03@volumehost.net * * * * * * * * * * *((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy * * * * * `-'(. .)`-'
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:30 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

On Wednesday 2008 December 10 19:14:37 lee wrote:
>On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 06:30:02PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>> If
>> time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a
>> good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to
>> say the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days?
>
>I'd say 1/2 year in this case.

Without some help from others, you probably won't be able to check kernels as
fast as they release new ones, so start looking for help.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. * * * * * * * * * * ,= ,-_-. =.
bss03@volumehost.net * * * * * * * * * * *((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy * * * * * `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.org/ * * * * * * * * * * *\_/ * *
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:47 AM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 07:14:37PM -0600, lee wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 06:30:02PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:52:03 lee wrote:

> > If you can find enough people with the same problems and co-ordinate, you
> > might be able to reduce the amount of effort each of you put forward. If
> > time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a
> > good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say
> > the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days?
>
> I'd say 1/2 year in this case.

In Stable (Etch), new kernels come out far more frequently than that.
Since you have to reboot to get the new kernel, even without a
power-cycle, anyone who keeps their system up-to-date likely won't be
able to provide anecdotal evidence of their system _not_ loosing a
drive, since the uptime is never that long.

Why haven't you been keeping the kernel up-to-date?

Doug.


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Old 12-11-2008, 08:40 PM
Emanoil Kotsev
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

lee wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58:30AM -0600, lee wrote:
>
>> I've started a long test, but it says it'll take about two hours. I'll
>> let you know the result.
>
> cat:/home/lee# smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdb
> smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8
> Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
> Num Test_Description Status Remaining
> LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
> # 1 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 9160
> # -
> # 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 9158
> # -
>
> cat:/home/lee#
>
>

do you have custom kernel or debian stock kernel. What is standard? Please,
look that you _don't_ use the ide_generic or ata_generic drivers. so kernel
config and lsmod check is worth I think. This we have discussed in other
postings. if compiling your own kernel this could be the issue.
I would also see what hdparm -tT says

I've been trying raid over usb for the last couple of months and had similar
problems with sata drives and no such problems with ide in usb boxes.
Finally no one could explain the reason for the raid loosing the drive and
I attached them directly to SATA bus. So far it's working.

Hope this information helps




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Old 12-12-2008, 12:35 AM
"Kelly Clowers"
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 14:53, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:21:26 -0600
> Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote:
>> > On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600
>> > "Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." <bss03@volumehost.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote:
>> >>> what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that
>> >>> comes as a Debian package?
>> >> The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts
>> >> removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added.
>> >
>> > The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL.
>>
>> Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte
>> arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source.
>
> And Debian removes these, even thought they're technically GPL? Any
> examples?

For more than you want to know about binary firmware blobs see the
thread "Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged 'lenny-ignore'?"
and related threads on debian devel:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/10/msg00368.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00024.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2008/10/msg00010.html

The above threads are perfect examples of why I am
subscribed to Debian devel.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Old 12-12-2008, 01:15 AM
Celejar
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:35:06 -0800
"Kelly Clowers" <kelly.clowers@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> For more than you want to know about binary firmware blobs see the
> thread "Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged 'lenny-ignore'?"
> and related threads on debian devel:
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/10/msg00368.html
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00024.html
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2008/10/msg00010.html

Thanks for the pointers.

> Kelly Clowers

Celejar
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:41 AM
"Adrian Levi"
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

2008/12/11 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss03@volumehost.net>:

> iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear.

I have been using 2.6.27.7 for a while now, seems pretty stable. With
a plain debian kernel 2.6.26 I would somwtimes have to press the wifi
kill switch to kill the driver and press it again to get it to
associate with my access point. I'm not using any access restrictions
on the access point itself, it's basically open.

Mine is an Acer 5920G-3A2G25MN, suspend and resume working flawlessly.

What have you been using?

--
24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths?
<erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to
ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my
apartment it is.


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Old 12-13-2008, 05:30 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

On Friday 2008 December 12 22:41:17 Adrian Levi wrote:
>2008/12/11 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss03@volumehost.net>:
>> iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear.
>
>I'm not using any access restrictions
>on the access point itself, it's basically open.

Both the APs I need to deal with regularly are WPA Personal.

>Mine is an Acer 5920G-3A2G25MN, suspend and resume working flawlessly.

Inspiron E1505, and suspend and resume are also working well since I got off
the older ifw3945 driver.

>What have you been using?

The non-free firmware, which troubles me. I was under the impression that
free software would drive all the hardware in the laptop, and was a bit
disappointed that I needed non-free software to use the wifi.

For the next laptop, I will do more research and hopefully get one where all
the integrated hardware is driven by free software, Debian (preferably
stable) in specific.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. * * * * * * * * * * ,= ,-_-. =.
bss03@volumehost.net * * * * * * * * * * *((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy * * * * * `-'(. .)`-'
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:48 AM
"Adrian Levi"
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

2008/12/13 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss03@volumehost.net>:
> On Friday 2008 December 12 22:41:17 Adrian Levi wrote:
>>2008/12/11 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <bss03@volumehost.net>:
>>> iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear.
>>
>>I'm not using any access restrictions
>>on the access point itself, it's basically open.
>
> Both the APs I need to deal with regularly are WPA Personal.
>
>>Mine is an Acer 5920G-3A2G25MN, suspend and resume working flawlessly.
>
> Inspiron E1505, and suspend and resume are also working well since I got off
> the older ifw3945 driver.

Mines the 4965 but I have been led to believe that they both suffer
the same troubles.

>>What have you been using?
>
> The non-free firmware, which troubles me. I was under the impression that
> free software would drive all the hardware in the laptop, and was a bit
> disappointed that I needed non-free software to use the wifi.
>
> For the next laptop, I will do more research and hopefully get one where all
> the integrated hardware is driven by free software, Debian (preferably
> stable) in specific.

For me it's also the Nvidia blob driver as well :-(

I can get X to work without it but the screen refresh rates are awful,
So bad that movies become unwatchable.

Adrian

--
24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths?
<erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to
ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my
apartment it is.


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Old 12-14-2008, 08:29 AM
Emanoil Kotsev
 
Default problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel

lee wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:40:50PM +0100, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
>>
>> do you have custom kernel or debian stock kernel.
>
> Until today, I was using a standard kernel from kernel.org. Today I
> downloaded the package with the Debian kernel sources (2.6.24, blah
> etchnhalf or something like that ...), configured it and made a kernel
> package with "make-kpkg kernel_image -us -uc", installed the package I
> made, and now I'm using that kernel.

OK, it's not the newest one but still better as 2.6.18 - let's hope it will
solve your problems

>
> I'm not sure if I could use a pre-built Debian kernel: the installer
> couldn't access the SATA disks because it didn't have the module for
> the controller, and a pre-built standard Debian kernel might not have
> that, either.

The installer uses different kernel, though. I would recommend recompiling
kernel, only if you are missing something from the standard one. But may be
this is the case for you.

>
>> What is standard? Please, look that you _don't_ use the ide_generic
>> or ata_generic drivers. so kernel config and lsmod check is worth I
>> think. This we have discussed in other postings. if compiling your
>> own kernel this could be the issue. I would also see what hdparm
>> -tT says
>
> I'll attach the .config to this mail. The ide_generic and ata_generic
> drivers do not work for this board. For the IDE disk, I'm using
> CONFIG_BLK_DEV_JMICRON: JMicron JMB36x support. The help for that says
> "Basic support for the JMicron ATA controllers. For full support use
> the libata drivers." But libata is deprecated? And I think I tried
> that, and it didn't work.
>
> For sata, it's CONFIG_SATA_AHCI ... Hm, I don't know about
> CONFIG_ATA_PIIX:
>
> "This option enables support for ICH5/6/7/8 Serial ATA and support for
> PATA on the Intel ESB/ICH/PIIX3/PIIX4 series host controllers."

Well, this was just an example. It is an older chipset

>
> lspci says ICH9: "SATA controller: Intel Corporation 82801IB (ICH9) 4
> port SATA AHCI Controller (rev 02)".
>
> Should I try CONFIG_ATA_PIIX instead (dunno if it works)?

this sounds good

>
>
> # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb
>
> /dev/sdb:
> Timing cached reads: 14464 MB in 2.00 seconds = 7241.58 MB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads: 202 MB in 3.02 seconds = 66.83 MB/sec
>
> hdpparm -tT /dev/sda
>
> /dev/sda:
> Timing cached reads: 14308 MB in 2.00 seconds = 7164.25 MB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads: 208 MB in 3.02 seconds = 68.83 MB/sec
>

this sounds also very good

>
> That's about the same as what I see in /proc/mdstat during a rebuild:
> about 70MB/sec for the partitions at the beginning of the disk, about
> 65MB/sec for the middle and 40MB/sec for the partition at the
> end. These disks are pretty slow. A much older, single SCSI disk is
> faster to read than the SATA RAID-1, maybe not in benchmark numbers
> but in how long it takes to load something.
>
>> I've been trying raid over usb for the last couple of months and had
>> similar problems with sata drives and no such problems with ide in usb
>> boxes. Finally no one could explain the reason for the raid loosing the
>> drive and I attached them directly to SATA bus. So far it's working.
>>
>> Hope this information helps
>
> Hmm ... What error messages did you get? When the disks were connected
> via USB, wouldn't you get different messages not related to SATA?
>

something like error on urbs (those are part of usb driver) and loosing
permanently one drive from the array. So I talked to the kernel people that
helped a bit, but this did not solve the issue.
It looks like one of the drives (mostly WesternDigital) looses power, this
is what the kernel people said and thus is being lost from the raid array.

Are your disks from same model and vendor?


regards



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