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Old 01-04-2009, 05:55 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default OT: laptop recomendations

Paul Cartwright wrote:
> On Sun January 4 2009, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>
>> If this is a QWERTY keyboard, then this is a British keyboard, not
>> a French keyboard. French (AZERTY) keyboards are awful to use when
>> programming or working with the shell, since [ ] { } and need the
>> AltGr key.
>>
>
> no, it's French.. trust me.. The DEL key says "suppr" and the insert key
> says "Inserer" withe the tick mark over the first "e".. and the end key
> says "Fin".
>
>

French keyboards are quite different. Not only they are AZERTY, but the
symbols are in some very different positions, compared to the US
keyboard. They do have the £ sign, but not in the same key as the 3. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layouts#French .

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http://move.to/hpkb


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Old 01-04-2009, 07:28 PM
Vincent Lefevre
 
Default OT: laptop recomendations

On 2009-01-04 16:55:39 -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> French keyboards are quite different. Not only they are AZERTY, but the
> symbols are in some very different positions, compared to the US
> keyboard. They do have the £ sign, but not in the same key as the 3. See
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layouts#French .

Apple's French keyboards are also different (I can see that on what
is written on the keys of the AZERTY keyboard of my PowerBook, even
though I've remapped it to some kind of QWERTY).

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Old 01-04-2009, 07:38 PM
Bernard
 
Default OT: laptop recomendations

Micha Feigin wrote:


On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:05:31 +0100
Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.org> wrote:




On 2009-01-04 11:28:10 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:



And BTW, the ThinkPads will waste up to 3W more in Linux than in
Windows, so keep that in mind when you look at battery life figures.



Is there any reason? Is this specific to ThinkPads?





From talks on linux-thinkpad it is not currently know exactly why, mostly
speculations. Either more agresive throttling of the graphics chip and/or
putting pci to sleep. Possibly more optimizations




What I can say is that, with my old Thinkpad 600 then running under
RedHat 7.2, I could expect at least three hours of work with the
battery, even three and a half hours when the battery was new (I used
that thing for about 6-7 years, and this is my third battery). Even
though I did have a small MSWIN partition (Windows 98), I have never
used it long enough to evaluate how long my laptop would work on battery
under that OS, but I doubt that it would have be 3X more, that is 9 to
10 hours.


This Thinkpad 600 was just a perfect machine. It ran at least 4 hours a
day, often 6-8 hours daily for more than 5 years ; everything worked
perfectly. I still have that machine, but then I was unable to get
satisfactory results when it came to operate WiFi. With WEP encription
it worked OK, but no workable issue with WPA. I then tried to install
Debian Etch, which worked OK, but not with WPA. Also, using Debian Etch,
a few utilities are not working properly, such as fan management and
sleep and hibernation modes, which worked perfectly under RedHat 7.2, to
the point that I rarely shutdown ; I just closed the lid. Under Debian
Etch, the log messages say about fan and sleep management : "BIOS too
old"... I bet I could overcome this, but I thought time might have come
to get something newer, since that Thinkpad was only 300 MHz (Pentium 3)
with a Hard Drive of 5 Gb. I then ordered a DELL Inspiron 1525, which I
should receive tomorrow. This is an experiment, also a bet, with the
advantage of a really low cost. It costs about as much as those new
mini-computers or internet-computers, but this is a real machine. If it
fails, I will take advantage of the warranty and services, and, in any
case, that will be an experience. True enough : if I decide that it is a
mistake, no warranty that good reliable computers such as Thinkpad T61
will then still be available...


I will let you know of my impressions when I receive that laptop. It is
supposed to run on Ubuntu, but I wish to install Debian Lenny instead.
Indeed, Ubuntu is probably OK, but I bet that it will include something
like Gnome or KDE, and I am more at ease with fvwm. I hope that the
removal of Ubuntu and replacing by Lenny will not genearate problems as
far as managing fan, video, sleep and hibernation modes, or with WiFi
capabilities with WPA encryption.



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Old 01-04-2009, 08:20 PM
Micha Feigin
 
Default OT: laptop recomendations

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:38:39 +0100
Bernard <bdebreil@teaser.fr> wrote:

> Micha Feigin wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:05:31 +0100
> >Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>On 2009-01-04 11:28:10 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>And BTW, the ThinkPads will waste up to 3W more in Linux than in
> >>>Windows, so keep that in mind when you look at battery life figures.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Is there any reason? Is this specific to ThinkPads?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >From talks on linux-thinkpad it is not currently know exactly why, mostly
> >speculations. Either more agresive throttling of the graphics chip and/or
> >putting pci to sleep. Possibly more optimizations
> >
> >
> >
> >
> What I can say is that, with my old Thinkpad 600 then running under
> RedHat 7.2, I could expect at least three hours of work with the
> battery, even three and a half hours when the battery was new (I used
> that thing for about 6-7 years, and this is my third battery). Even
> though I did have a small MSWIN partition (Windows 98), I have never
> used it long enough to evaluate how long my laptop would work on battery
> under that OS, but I doubt that it would have be 3X more, that is 9 to
> 10 hours.
>
> This Thinkpad 600 was just a perfect machine. It ran at least 4 hours a
> day, often 6-8 hours daily for more than 5 years ; everything worked
> perfectly. I still have that machine, but then I was unable to get
> satisfactory results when it came to operate WiFi. With WEP encription
> it worked OK, but no workable issue with WPA. I then tried to install
> Debian Etch, which worked OK, but not with WPA. Also, using Debian Etch,
> a few utilities are not working properly, such as fan management and
> sleep and hibernation modes, which worked perfectly under RedHat 7.2, to
> the point that I rarely shutdown ; I just closed the lid. Under Debian
> Etch, the log messages say about fan and sleep management : "BIOS too
> old"... I bet I could overcome this, but I thought time might have come

My guess is that the laptop uses APM which is really old. Debian must have
phased it out, but you can check the packages if there is still APM support
instead of acpi. Otherwise you can check if there is a bios upgrade to
support acpi (they will probably sell it as compatibility upgrade for win2k -
thats how toshiba presented it).

> to get something newer, since that Thinkpad was only 300 MHz (Pentium 3)
> with a Hard Drive of 5 Gb. I then ordered a DELL Inspiron 1525, which I

It's a lot of bang for the money, but it's a bit heavy and they save money
where they don't tell you, such as the touchpad, keyboard, screen. A friend of
mine got it just now, we'll see how it holds up.

> should receive tomorrow. This is an experiment, also a bet, with the
> advantage of a really low cost. It costs about as much as those new
> mini-computers or internet-computers, but this is a real machine. If it
> fails, I will take advantage of the warranty and services, and, in any
> case, that will be an experience. True enough : if I decide that it is a
> mistake, no warranty that good reliable computers such as Thinkpad T61
> will then still be available...
>

T61 is a bit old now but still available. Reviews of the t500/t400 seem to be
mixed (especially regarding the keyboard, not sure about the screen).

> I will let you know of my impressions when I receive that laptop. It is
> supposed to run on Ubuntu, but I wish to install Debian Lenny instead.
> Indeed, Ubuntu is probably OK, but I bet that it will include something
> like Gnome or KDE, and I am more at ease with fvwm. I hope that the
> removal of Ubuntu and replacing by Lenny will not genearate problems as
> far as managing fan, video, sleep and hibernation modes, or with WiFi
> capabilities with WPA encryption.
>


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Old 01-05-2009, 12:06 AM
Michael Pobega
 
Default OT: laptop recomendations

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:45:09AM +0200, Micha Feigin wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Sorry for being a bit off topic but it's time for a new laptop that
> will run linux solely and I'm looking for recomendation on what has a
> good build quallity (will travel), descent battery life, although more
> important is good computing power and a good screen at 15.4" (needs to
> be workable with the screen) at a price range of around 1500$ rough
> ballpark. Good service is a must since it's a working laptop.
>
> I know that hp and compaq are a big no no (build quality is shaky at
> best). I also have the worst experience possible with Sony support on
> just about every continent (haven't managed to run into worse).
> Lenovo 3000 series also has a bad track run at our uni in terms of
> build quallity, no experience with the ideapad pad heard that they are
> not much brighter.
>

I will definitely recommend anything made by Asus. I own an Eee PC
(obviously way smaller and cheaper than what you are looking for), but I
have to say the build quality is acceptable. I've had the keyboard break
once, the touchpad buttons are crap (but this is acceptable since the
touchpad itself is slick to the touch and tap sensitive; it's gorgeous
in that regard)(also, my Eee is one of the original models, so the
hardware isn't as reliable as the newer Eees/higher end Asus laptops).

Other than that, the hardware is reliable. I've had no internal problems
whatsoever, and Asus' tech support is fantastic; they've given me no
problems (as I've yet to mod my Eee), and their techs are generally
knowledgeable.

> Thanks
>

Not a problem.

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